Since the developers never remember that the Paladin alliance line is a dps spell not a heal like the priests have (seriously it's almost like they are doing it on purpose), I'd rather just have it changed to be the 4th alliance heal proc thing. Then when they ignore it during a dps alliance line upgrade for all other classes, we won't care.
Thats a valid option. Obviously it wont be coded to fire off other classes, but maybe tie it into procs from the person that cast the spell. Might be a stretch tho.
Loving the suggestions, to pick up on some:- Add/toggle agro to our admonish line. Cut the cast time. Crushes/Stuns - Either up the crushes damage and combine them with stuns, and add a toggle (Crush and stun, crush only, stun only) or where mobs cannot be stunned, make the stun damage the mob. Blunted blade: No upgrade since it was 1st introduced. SK's got a version at the same level and have had 2 upgrades. We dont just need a stun upgrade, we need a damage upgrade. So either give us a new disc, or focus it better and remove the upper level of the stun. Revitalizing steel needs to be scrapped - totally agree its a waste of a spell slot. Act of Valor: Scrap it or reduce the penalty as suggested already. I dont like our Dicho line, I find it massively situational. If the cost is going to be 5 or 6 times the cost of things we can already do and have no damage, they need to do more good, bigger healer, longer stuns, damage mitigation, take your pick. Like the idea about combining audacity and honor. Chuck in our Lvl 116 mini mark spell as a proc, and scrap that as a spell as well. Scrap culpability, check. Remove 12 second lock on burst, check. Alliance: I bet we didnt get one, because the last upgrade wasnt added til mid expansion (or was it the expansion after). For a spell which is primarily a raid spell, having a component that is mostly negated on raids is bad design and bad for the class. Unless our spells are getting a casting reduction, reduce the number it takes to trigger it. Then either increase the damage and get rid of the stun, or keep the damage level as is and add it a pbae heal. Buffs: I think hp and ac wise our "Keeper" buff isnt that far behind the cleric version. Where it really sucks is cast time. A faster cast might make it a good raid recovery patch. Also, duration, I dont want 5 hours, 2 or 3 would be good. Give us back our AC buff. Clerics still get it, make it into a bundle with our symbol and keeper lines. Brells is too vanilla, give it some mitigation or some other defensive ability. Remember its not just a benefit for the class, it can land on anyone! Because DPS is king in this game, and DPS is agro, we are falling behind on both. I dont want to be able to take mobs off of SK's and Warriors, I just want to keep the ones I'm assigned. Mitigation: Our survival relies too much on healing, more than the other tanks. Its ironic that as a defensive tank, we have the most unreliable defences. We need something to smooth the spikes. I had an idea for a spell/AA that reflects melee damage back at the mob. The % of dmg reflection and duration/dmg limit would dictate whether this was a spell or an AA. If it was geared to use in groups then it would be a spell, with a quick re-use (so as an example reflection would be 15% of incoming damage for 1 min with a recast of 5 mins or with a max damage of 50,000) or if it was geared for Raids or named encounter it would be an AA (25% of incoming damage 1,000,000 damage with a recast of 45 mins. The amounts could be rejigged to what ever was within the limits of the class. The damage would count as the players, so help build/hold agro. A high cost AA which bestows a favour from your God, but you have to work for it. Activated you would cast an unresistible DD spell, the damage of which would be based on the number of light blue or higher con mobs, so no need for a recast. If you kill 1 light blue mob before use it would do 100 damage kill 1 dark blue mob it would do 200 damage etc. The more mobs you kill the more damage it would do (say max of 1,000,000?) but once used the damage done/kill score would be reset).
It was! I made threads for both the FoD/SV issue and LoH / Gift of Life one since I assumed they were bugs or unintentional changes. I guess neither thread got enough likes for DBG to give a flip. In reverse order: Our threat is fine. If other tanks are ripping mobs off you without actively trying to, you're doing something wrong. Agree about our damage, it's a dumpster fire. Alliance we got one in CoV while other classes got one in ToV. Unless I'm misremembering, our level 104 alliance also was not updated to allow it to fire from spells up to level 115 until after CoV launched. They purposefully left us without an alliance that would trigger from current level spells during the expansion where we were fighting undead all the time. Was pretty insulting, imo. I worry about combining audacity and honor. Audacity you always get the full duration worth of hate from the ticks, honor you do not since you're recasting it for the initial threat. I also do not think they'd keep it instant cast with a reasonably low recast time if they combined the effects. I love dicho as it currently exists. I look at it as an instant cast solid group heal. Anything else I can use it for is just a cherry on top.
I actually PMd a Dev when it was first broken, it was patched, but not fully fixed, I PMd again, nothing… I think that’s about the time I retired too.
Yeah. I just wish there was better communication so we could know if it's an intended change or unintentional. Even "confirmed bug, but no timeline for fix" would be better.
Also - Helix of the Undying - now its tucked away as a proc from Honor - it could use the occasional upgrade - at least increase the stat debuffs!
Reaver's Bargain equivalent is still #1 for me - for tanking parity, and because endurance should have a purpose (does any Paladin's endurance actually go down significantly outside of a death?). A buffed Wurmslayer type weapon would be awesome (I understand it might be redundant with lots of stuff, but bringing up that minimum tanking/mitigation performance on a constant basis is still of value). Revitalizing Steel buff needs help. Tons more charges or a revamp or something.... Lowered reuse on Shield Flash would be appreciated and thematic. Is DPS where it should be given the total Paladin's package? Probably not, but I'd rather have the appropriate tanking tools for the class many have chosen as a tank.
Crazy idea here ,but I'd dig an AA that turned me (the pally) into an undead pally, and this changed all spells and abilities that does the extra damage on undeads, now does the same to the living in stead! Slay undead would become Slay the living etc, you get my point. This would get us competitive dps to the SK. Also would give us versatility and some real fun to be had.
You're right, it's crazy. You should be commended for thinking outside of the box. Then again, I'm not sure you're in the same box as the rest of us to begin with. 1.) It completely goes against what a paladin is in EQ. 2.) You'd be asking them to code mirror images of all of our spells and abilities that are anti-undead to be anti-live for your idea Even if people liked this crazy idea (I wouldn't count on it), you would never get the dev time now to have something like that implemented. We would be extremely lucky if they blessed us with the time needed to fix a bunch of the broken / unupdated stuff that we have now.
Along the same lines to this. But could be a different form of sk’s zombie/spectre dmg as buffs with holy crusader/holy zealot where one would be a large base dmg increase with self heal procs and zealot be a form of base heal increases or group splash procs
What about turning the Paladin into a Beacon of Light? When the mob hits the Paladin it could have a % chance to stun itself or blind itself (reduces accuracy - but not make it run away!)
Every time there is a post like this, people lose their minds. People come up with crazy class definition breaking ideas and don't put any thought into what it would take to actually implement their ideas. The two most important devs that would be REQUIRED to affect any change at all in the class would need to listen to our ideas, and then want to actually act on them. You are going to be much better served in trying to get tweaks and improvements in the 20 something years worth of already existing spell lines and abilities than trying to wish for something brand new to be created. Our snap agro is a joke and needs like a 50% boost to all of our single target agro spells and abilities. If SKs are the kings of AE agro, we should be kings of single target and we are clearly NOT. Our AE agro could use a reduction in the reuse times for Beacon and Hallowed, but otherwise they are fine. Our DPS is so freaking bad. It relies entirely too much on Blessing of the Faithful procs. Our healing spells are underpowered and too slow. The game has evolved faster and faster and our lack of adequate passive healing is a glaring weakness. Passive healing is probably 50% of why SKs are so much better than paladins. The nerf to Spell casting reinforcement mastery is still a major blow that has never been corrected. A lot of good would come from an AA that boosted disc uptime to at least some degree, even if obviously lesser than what SCRM was prior to nerf. One thing that paladins suffer from, is our separate lines of stuns, crushes, nukes and undead nukes. The game limits us in such a dramatic way with the limited spell bar slots and paladins suffer worse than any other class I play other than maybe shammys. I would love to have full time access to all of our stuns, crushes and types of nukes, but that would take up more than the entire spell bar right there. Whether in the group game or raid game, it is very common that some mobs are stunnable and some are not. Some mobs are undead and some are not. Whats worse is the mixing of these mobs is pretty much standard. There is no way to maximize our effectiveness because we can't load all of those spell lines, and its a constant compromise to what will effect the most mobs in a given zone or raid. I've always hated that. Id really love to be able to load different spell sets instantly and without needing to sit. The slowness of swapping spell sets and needing to sit is such a relic limitation that really needs to be put to an end in this much faster modern EQ.
At least my post was fun with an awesome idea. Yours made me fall asleep halfway through (no offense, I think). If any of the devs has some creativity left in them, I believe my post would spark a creative smile and maybe start an idea in their minds.
No, plain and simple. This thread is not for hairbrain wild ideas. It is to help our class and hopefully get some attention. We need tweaks, not leaps and bounds.
Alright, in that case, I do have a 120 pally with almost max aa's and would like our dmg to be more consistent between undeads and live mobs, to be able to duo easier.
This was one of the big surprises when I switched my main from a warrior to a shadowknight last year. I kinda thought shadowknights lifetapped like paladins healed, plus an epic click. But the amount of passive lifetaps going on is crazy. My SK can't blink without procing a few lifetaps. I kind of want to chart all the sources of self-healing a modestly played SK triggers during a fight, partially to see if I've got any gaps that real SKs can point out and also to demonstrate just how massive the gap in passive healing is between SKs and paladins.
I'll agree, passive healing needs an increase, but I already provide roughly 32-35% of my own healing, actively. What percentage are we asking for here....another 15% of my healing as passive, so that 50% of my healing is provided by me alone? I'm not against it, but it seems that paladins would just be where SKs are, OP and people seeking ways to nerf them. For reference, each cleric provided roughly 11%, 10%, 8%, 7%, 6% for the raid night. Someone mentioned combining stuns with our damaging line of spells, crushes and the admonish line...I'd agree with that if there was a way to turn off the damage component via AA toggle. There are certainly fights in EQ history that have benefited from having the non-dmg spell aggro/hate component vs SK dmg hate. I'm thinking off the top of my head Stratos raid when doing the mezzing achievement.
