The Ethics of Bazaar Selling and other System Interactions

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Draggoone, Feb 27, 2023.

  1. Draggoone Journeyman

    Only if you focus on the story part about the bazaar, which admittedly most people are. The 'does my enjoyment vs their enjoyment' stuff at the end of the rant was more the ethical part. Reminded me of what little I remembered of my long ago ethics class in college.

    Sure
  2. Zarkdon Augur

    No BazMart! Support small traders!
    xcitng and Nennius like this.
  3. Nennius Curmudgeon

    The dwarven people welcome the thought.
    Tatanka likes this.
  4. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    When I set up my trader I generally set everything as the lowest price. How much lower depends on the price of the item. I try to set it to a level I would feel like I was getting a deal for.

    The only time I don't set as the lowest is if someone is selling for a price I think is too much below what I think the item is worth, in which case I'll either buy theirs and sell it higher (rarely) or more often just keep the price the same as I had and wait until theirs is sold.

    I also rarely sell anything less then 5k-10 minimum as it just isn't worth the effort. Once something gets below that point I'll either just hold onto it / give it away / destroy it.
    minimind likes this.
  5. Flatchy Court Jester

    Me too, I mean one copper or gold really?? I also undercut but only when I set my prices. Checking them everyday is way to much of a hassle and I won be bothered with that. Wal Mart made its fortune on being the lowest out there. These people who talk about some bazaar coalition with all same prices make me laugh. I think there was even a guild at one time someone made that was just trying to consist of baz bots.

    The one thing I dont care for is when everyone is around the 10k plat range and you got the one PEOPLES CHAMPION who is gonna price his for 500 plat.
    xcitng likes this.
  6. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I always check the price of the item I'm selling and will sell cheaper, how much depends on what I feel it is worth. Minimum I will go under is 100pp, but this can range to thousands if I want PP quick or want rid of items.

    But I also go the other way and will overprice rare collectables, mainly so friends can see what I have and if they ask for any I will parcel them for free....if fools want to pay silly prices for them they are welcome to them.
  7. Flatchy Court Jester


    Imagine my disappointment when that 250k waterflask tasted just like the others!
    Yinla likes this.
  8. minimind The Village Idiot

    I don't think undercutting people is unethical. The goal of the marketplace is for competition between sellers to make items affordable for players to buy and use. The only "harm" being done is to potential profits of someone who anticipated higher returns for their products. Utility by active players outweighs profits. Heck-- I don't think there's enough competition because setting prices too burdensome.

    What is harmful to the market (and thus active players) is when someone intentionally buys up the entire market supply of something to corner and gouge the market. That prices out major portions of the potential customer base in hopes of landing whales that will pay anything for whatever they want.

    My dream is a marketplace that:
    1. Doesn't preclude an account from being used for adventuring
    2. Has a large-ish limit on items (100?) with the opportunity to buy more slots.
    3. Allows the custom setting of a sale price
    4. Has a button "Match" lowest market price for an item
    5. Has a button "Match ALL" to sell all items for sale to the lowest market price
    6. Has a "Quick Sell" button that works like this:
      • Select item
      • Push "Quick Sell"
      • Item put up for sale at 5% lower than current lowest price but not lower than your account's lowest price
      • Every 24 hours, the price drops another 5%
      • No price floor
      • Marketplace takes 5% of the final sale price (not including the mark-up for having an item sent via parcel)
    7. Has a button "Remove" that removes an item from the market place.
    This would likely result in the market being flooded by items being hoarded by people who don't want to bother setting up a trader and sorting out the prices for every single item. And that's good-- especially for consumables like food, drink, potions, attuneable items, and collectibles. The better access characters (including alts) have to these items, the better off everyone is.
    Ssdar and Draggoone like this.
  9. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Sure it does. I mean its not an earth shattering issue of ethics. But it is an ethical issue in some ways. You may or may not want it to be one. Do you know how they do studies on things like ethics? With games. Pretty simple games but they use games. How ethical we are in games matters much like the idea of testing ones ethics when no one will can catch you being unethical. It would be fair to say as an issue of ethics that it is a very minor one. But isn't that how you figure out how ethical a person is? Do they follow their ethics even when it isn't a big deal or when there will be no reprecussions?
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I do think the person the OP was talking about was a bit out there though based on the description of their views. But it is not the same thing as saying there are no ethics involved. I think it would be fair to say that bazaar activity overall is not any sort of significant breach of ethics first of all because it is a game and does not directly affect RL.

    Camps in EQ are a perfect example. On Live servers folks mostly respect camps do to ethics. Daybreak doesn't enforce them that is an ethical decision by the players to respect camps. Ethics comes to play in games all the time.
    Draggoone likes this.
  11. Svann2 The Magnificent

    It could be argued that a practice of discouraging undercutting is harmful to the new playerbase. Its like cartel behavior which is illegal for good reason in real life, and makes for higher prices. So really its he that is being unethical.
    Draggoone likes this.
  12. xcitng Augur

    People often undercut some, most don't take it to the extreme some do.
  13. filthytlpplayer Elder

    They system was designed to encourage undercutting because it was designed to be an extension of the EC tunnel, where you're actively playing your trader and adjusting prices in response to other sellers. It's a different system than WoW's AH for example, which encourages players to price an item for what they want to sell it for and attaches penalties to manipulating that price after posting it (for buyouts anyway). Both systems are valid for their intended use case, the friction arises from wanting the bazaar to behave like an auction house. It seems like players overwhelmingly want an AH feature based on how they use the bazaar.
    Draggoone likes this.
  14. TheRealMuramx Elder

    This will is why I hate the Baz... I mean plat use to mean something and having 10k was so much. Now there is so much on the servers after 24 years, undercutting someone by 5% and then having someone gett hurt over it is sad, especially if it's a low value item like food.

    I will however refuse to buy from the people that try and sell something for 1-2 plat less. I hope whatever it is collects dust and when it finally is sold an expansion later it's for 1/4 the price. And I won't buy from a trader that offers some lowball number on something I am selling cheap to begin with when they have high end items for sale. I know they are trying to flip it and who knows how much of what they are selling the scammed a person out of.
  15. Laronk Augur

    When I go to the baz, i sort by price and buy. Most of the time im not even in the bazaar and just having stuff go to parcel.

    When I sell since i hate adjusting prices or even setting up my seller I undercut by 50% usually. You're selling for a million? I'll sell for 500k
    Yinla likes this.
  16. Syylke_EMarr Augur

    Personally, my bazaar shopping habit is to search for what I want, check for the lowest price, then look to see who has the fewest of said item that isn't too far from the lowest price. That's my way of trying to support the Not Bots.

    As far as pricing items goes, I typically undercut the lowest when I update prices (unless the lowest is someone I know). The amount of undercut depends on each item individually. Current highest is 750k? I price it at 500k. I'm lazy and plat is mostly meaningless, so I round very harshly.
  17. Svann2 The Magnificent

    As someone who hates overpriced items I say undercut all you want. Go as low as you can. Best ethics are low prices.
    Yinla and minimind like this.
  18. Bernel Augur

    Similar price tweaking happens with /barter. It's in the player's best interest to not sell to the highest buyer so that the economy supports lots of buyers. If everyone sells to the highest buyer, then the other buyers will quit since they aren't getting any business. That will leave just one buyer who will set their price very low since there's no competition.

    One difference with the /bazaar is that the sellers are often selling stuff that is in limited quantities. They only have so much stuff to sell, so they can't corner the market forever. But a /barter buyer can pretty much buy unlimited items as long as their plat holds out. With tradeskill items going for relatively low amounts compared to the millions of plat the buyers must have in their account, a well-funded buyer can pretty much corner the market (assuming that they can move those items at a profitable price in /bazaar).
  19. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    Allow a single (64 bit) integer price to be set for each item in our Dragons Horde and Tradeskill Depots; then add a Collectible Depot (with an option for guildies to use as needed directly) with pricing as well.

    Maybe still require buyers to go to the old baz zone and click an NPC to access the buying UI, so accessing the data doesn't lag other zones. Main issue is how 'atomic' the depot system is to ensure one item can't be removed twice.
  20. Cicelee Augur

    I guarantee if you delete everything you get that you don't want or a NPC vendor will not buy, you will never have to worry about hurting a bazaar mule's feelings and questioning your morals and ethics.