So, several of us have been talking around in GC and various forums about this new Beserker only weapon that came with Night of Shadow. The Spectral Luclinite Poleaxe, and if this is a true upgrade over the traditional melee type weapons available to multi classes (2HP, 2HS, 2HB), with specific focus on the 2HB. Weapon stat recap below: Spectral Luclinite Poleaxe - Base DMG: 892; Delay: 32; DMG Bonus:941; Ratio: 27.875 Spectral Luclinite Spear - Base DMG: 798; Delay: 30; DMG Bonus:790; Ratio: 26.60 Spectral Luclinite Bardiche - Base DMG: 851; Delay: 32; DMG Bonus:898; Ratio: 26.59 Spectral Luclinite Maul - Base DMG: 958; Delay: 36; DMG Bonus:1138; Ratio: 26.61 So the new polearm is clearly better from a Ratio perspective (+4.4%), so from that standpoint it is the best choice. But under bard ADPS, I'm told that the delay cap essentially flattens out and at that point is just all about Damage - so the Hammer will always win out. Is this the case and can someone explain to me the fundamentals around this as I don't play either of these classes at significant depth. If any group or raid composition comparison are made, please assume that the berserker always has a bard and shaman in group. I like the fact that DBG may have threw a bone to berserkers who have really fell off to rogues the last couple expansions through a class specific weapon. I would hate to see it be all for not if another weapon continues to be the top (and really only) choice. Interested to learn more on this subject. Thanks for the input ahead of time.
The poleaxe is better most of the time, the blunt is better under a berserkers main burn. With that said i have asked for the poleaxe to be changed to high damage/slow delay with the same ratio. Was told it would be looked into, so will have to wait and see what that will mean.
I believe part of it has to do with the Hundred Hands Effect (HHE) which is found on lots of different things on different classes within the game. HHE decreases weapon delay by X%. I don't know if this SPA is still regarded as HHE or if there is a current named it's referred too. Generally speaking, the decrease in delay is more on a 36 delay weapon vs a 32 or 30 delay weapon. For the 3 weapons (3 has been the tradition in prior expansions), with a similar ratio of ~26.6, you end up getting a higher damage ratio when the HHE is factored in. I think there is another part dealing with crit / crip modifiers being better with a higher base damage. But I will defer to the experts on details.
In all of my immense parsing on all of these subjects....here's what I've found. 30 delay and 36 delay parse extremely close from auto attack, but 30 delay was slightly higher (I mean almost a rounding error) than 36. 36 delay was somewhere around a 3-5% higher under full burn and adps. Unsure what caused the difference but it was apparent. This didn't include use of rampage which would skew things slightly more in 36 delays favor. HHE had zero extra benefit to 30 or 36 over the other. Each parse with and without beast dicho increased each weapon by the same %. This is confluent with basic laws of mathematics. Idk where this myth started but it's not true, at least not for these weapon delays. To be fair this was a zero lag house dummy parse. No other adps (shaman epic, bard adps as has been in question) favored one delay over another, not sure where that myth started but it's false. My guess without having the weapons to parse it THIS year in particular, I'm sure the zerk only weapon would be roughly the same dps as blunt under full burn, and be the clear winner in any other circumstances due to higher ratio. Hopefully tolzol can talk them into making it be a 36 delay either way!
The two weapons the OP was asking about were: Spectral Luclinite Poleaxe - Base DMG: 892; Delay: 32; DMG Bonus:941; Ratio: 27.875 Spectral Luclinite Maul - Base DMG: 958; Delay: 36; DMG Bonus:1138; Ratio: 26.61 You seem to have compared the Maul to the Spectral Luclinite Spear - Base DMG: 798; Delay: 30; DMG Bonus:790; Ratio: 26.60, as it is the only one with 30 delay. But the Spear also has a lower ratio than the Maul. The items which apply to the OP question are ones where the weapon with the better ratio has dmg and delay that are lower than the weapon with the worse ratio. The results you got from the Spear are expected since the ratio is better on the Maul and the Maul is getting larger benefit from HHE, but in the case of the Pole arm the difference is noticeably less.
This parsing was tested years ago with.....tov? Raid weapons. It was simply to show that hhe does not affect different weapon ratios differently, which you still seem to believe. Edit: I meant hhe does not affect dps of weapons with near or actually identical ratios but different delays.
I'm curious as to what his rationale is for there being a larger benefit. I have hunches but it's better to not assume.
I had always assumed that any measured difference between weapons of the same ratio but differing delays was due to how EQ calculated delays when affected by Hundred Hands. Example: Quicktime has a 15% reduction in delay, but if EQ doesn't want delay to be fractional, it needs to either round (up or to nearest whole) or truncate the value after the decimal. If EQ rounds the effective delay up, then it would definitely benefit 36-delay weapons more than 32- and 30-delay. If it rounds to the nearest whole delay number, then 32-delay weapons are favored.If it truncates the decimal value (effectively universally rounding down), then 36- and 30-delay weapons would get more benefit than 32-delay. The decimal values would change with other HH levels like Ancient: Cry of Chaos which has an 11.3% reduction in delay or Ruaabri's which is a 33.8% reduction in delay. And of course, if EQ is just fine with fractional delays, then all of this postulation goes out the window.
Quoting myself to follow up. IF in fact EQ needs whole number delays and thus HH (weapon delay reduction effect) results in some level of rounding or truncation, here's how the standings work out: Ancient: Cry of Chaos (BER group/MGB) @ 11.3% If rounding up: 36 delay is better If rounding to nearest: 32 delay is better If truncating: 36 delay is better Quick Time (BRD, group) @ 15% If rounding up: 36 delay is better If rounding to nearest: 32 delay is better If truncating: 36 delay or 30 delay is better Avenging Flurry rk. III (Ber disc) @ 24.8% If rounding up: 30 delay is better If rounding to nearest: 36 or 32 delay is better If truncating: 30 delay is better Ruaabri's Something (BST, group) @ 33.8% If rounding up: 36 delay is better (by .01 ratio over 30 delay) If rounding to nearest: 32 delay is better If truncating: 30 delay is better Again, this is all conjecture based on my guess that any difference observed between same-ratio, different delay 2-handers when used by berserkers is due to EQ needing whole-number weapon delay. If that's the case, and it's an option, maybe the something can change so that fractional delay could be used to some extent (.1 or .01).
With augs the list looks somewhat different: Spectral Luclinite Spear - Base DMG: 833; Delay: 30; DMG Bonus:824; Ratio: 27.77 Spectral Luclinite Bardiche - Base DMG: 886; Delay: 32; DMG Bonus:935; Ratio: 27.69 Spectral Luclinite Maul - Base DMG: 993; Delay: 36; DMG Bonus:1179; Ratio: 27.58 https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=169963&aug5=42073&aug8=169575 https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=169961&aug5=42073&aug8=169575 https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=169962&aug5=42073&aug8=169575 Things to note: the ratios are spreading apart, although damage bonuses are also increased not equally. The poleaxe is not in there yet to link, my projection will be with the same augs: Spectral Luclinite Poleaxe - Base DMG: 927; Delay: 32; DMG Bonus:978; Ratio: 28.969 I am not sure if augs would help with a winner designation, i don't have a variety of gear to run a parse.
Regarding weapon delays … I remember something (SoF era?) about that. 10/128 seconds is the “minimum” delay, because that is the discrete time amount at which the game processes combat rounds. Any time a combat round should occur (which is likely to be 90% of them on average, I’d imagine) at a time before the next 10/128 second is up gets pushed back to the next 10/128 second. However, the game keeps track of how much time is thus “lost”, and when that time equals the time between combat rounds, a “free” round is made. I have no idea how this was discovered, and I freely admit I could be misremembering it. The context of the discussion was regarding how HHE affects fast 1h weapons, and how/why certain 1h weapons with delays off by 1 point (22 vs 23 delay? Or was it 21 vs 22 delay?) attacked at *exactly* the same rate when fully hasted and with HHE. Maybe someone else remembering that discussion can chime in with what they remember? Or does the waybackmachine have access to those old posts somewhere?
There's a thread about this from monkly business that gets quoted a lot, so it may have been true at some point. The same thread describes HHE working far differently from how it works in game today, so it seems probable that things have changed (if the thread was correct when written). In any event, I've not seen anyone reproduce those results in game today. At very high HHE/very low delay levels, swings still occur at the frequency I would expect (without rounding to 10/128ths of a second) in the tests I've done.
The Dev's told us that value. The amount originated from a post on here, but I haven't been able to find it because the search on here limits itself to a relatively small amount of time compared to how far the posts actually go back.
I like hitting for higher numbers, so the highest damage weapon is what I use lol. I'm sure the poleaxe is the highest DPS weapon for Zerkers.
Using the poleaxe exclusively on raids, I consistently outparse every other zerker in the guild who are trying the other weapons. Its not even close, ratio is king.
