The problem with low exp per kill of mobs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Ozlaar, Jan 29, 2023.

  1. Bernel Augur

    I am a returning character who had a blast leveling my 60 to 85-90. After that, things began to slow down. In the high 90's I gave up trying to level him. The previous experience of single-box, enjoyable molo-ing was over. Now it was trying to stay alive through long fights for tiny exp gain with lots of recovery time afterwards. That was not fun. That kind of experience is why I quit originally. Technically I can still molo at the high levels, but the enjoyment which brought me back to EQ is gone. Now that character is just being leveled up with Overseer. I don't adventure with him. I use him as a buff bot for alts. I have no desire to adventure at the higher levels. I have no desire to purchase expansions at those levels for which I wouldn't have fun. If the higher level game was as fun as the pre-100 experience, I would likely be spending a lot more on the game.

    I don't really understand how the exp shift at the high levels benefits the game or the players since, for me, it dissuades me from wanting to play at those levels or spend money on EQ. And the posts in this thread aren't clearing things up. There are lots of people stating the alternative leveling paths, but I don't hear people saying they love the reduction in grinding exp and feel the game is better for that change. If when I came back the leveling strategy for my 60 was similar to the post 100 experience (e.g. scraping by for grinding exp and doing Overseer), I would have not returned and not spent money on the game. It seems like having both good grinding exp and good quest based experience paths would make both groups of people happy past 100.
    Stymie, Dre., Vizier and 1 other person like this.
  2. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Lets check that again.


    You just said that it isn't useful and as others and myself have said multiple times that they do find it useful

    Yes, overseer is not designed to replace getting items, spells and other things from the game but it can be useful to help people catch up and group with others. In no way does it hurt the game by letting people get some experience in a different manner.
    Rijacki likes this.
  3. Shakara Augur

    Maybe its the double negative tripping you up which is my bad, but "The problem with overseer isen't that is not useful" means overseer is useful, but it still has problems.
  4. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I still see you making complaints about a system that you are not forced to use.
  5. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    It’s the most rewarding path in the game, and players will always use the most rewarding option regardless of fun. It’s why things get adjusted all the time GMM, Ada in EW3, Gribbles, Shrouds, OMMs, etc. Nobody is forced to do anything but those are just a couple of things that were changed.

    Overseer can stay, but it sucks and it’s an embarrassment for a game studio that’s been around for 25 years.
    Stymie and Vizier like this.
  6. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Overseer's implementation could have been a little more approachable, but the underlying concept and reward systems align pretty well with its objectives.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    So getting gear from groups/raids, completing quests are less rewarding than getting a little xp from overseer?
    code-zero and Rijacki like this.
  8. Vizier Augur

    This^^ Good luck getting anyone on these forums to care. Anyone who tries to agree with you gets piled on and silenced.
    Stymie, Ileasa and Dre. like this.
  9. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    You’re steering away from your point that you’re not forced to use it.
  10. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    The point of not being forced to use it is only for the complaints that they don't like it. The fact is that people don't only do overseer and there are many parts of the game that can't be completed via overseer.
    Rijacki likes this.
  11. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Except, of course, for the 10s of 1000s of AAs that are left to grind out.

    The grinding still happens, it's just not used for leveling XP.
    code-zero likes this.
  12. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    1 - Except there's still TONS of content to do, which can't be done through Overseer.

    2 - As to "the less they need to play". Not everyone has 20-40 hours a week to play EQ. Without Overseer, I'd never get to max level, forget all the AAs I've gotten and other content accomplished. Overseer is a total win for those who can only play ~10 hours a week, or less. It allows us to get to max level, and still get some other things done. Last year was the first year that my AAs earned plus auto-grant added up to more than the AAs introduced in that year. I wouldn't have had time to do that if I'd had to level as well.
  13. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    /raises hand

    Must have missed some of my posts in this thread, then.

    Being able to ignore leveling XP grinds, and just devote XP to AAs is a huge time-saver.
  14. Bernel Augur

    But that's a reason that you like the quest-based exp paths, not a reason why you like the reduction in grind-based exp. I can understand why people would like an alternate way to get XP through the achievement quests. That's a new path to get XP. But that doesn't require a reduction in the grind-based XP path. If grind-based XP stayed about the same, you could do the quest-based or grind-based depending on your preference.

    My point is not that the quest-based XP path is relatively faster than grind-based. Rather, it's that the grind-based XP path has been made less efficient relative to itself. Having the levels past 100 or so be like longer and longer hell levels means that each level takes longer and longer to achieve. Grinding becomes less and less fun as the levels get higher. The fact that an alternate way to get XP exists doesn't change the fact that grinding XP slows way down at the high levels.
    Stymie, Ileasa and Dre. like this.
  15. MmmmBop Wise Troll

    How about if there was an option (like an autogrant aa check box) that gave people the option to get double regular exp until they were 5 levels short of the max? Sort of like how you get bonus aa exp if you have less than 3K aa's or whatever it is.

    It's a catch up mechanic for people focused on trying to catch up in levels, but not automatic for those people who actually want to play the whole game expansion by expansion the way it was meant. Where most of the players of the game play at max level, this would just be another way to help speed up the process for those trying to get to that point - especially for those who struggle to do much 10 or 15 levels below max.
    Stymie likes this.
  16. Dwimmerlaike Elder

    Autogrant makes the grind for AA's a helluva lot easier. You have enough now autogranted to grind, that it shouldn't hold you back.
  17. Shakara Augur

    Again Overseer is useful but poor design. What if....hang on....You got more xp for killing monsters. Then you could get to max level by actually playing EQ. So many of you Overseer supporters seem to be overlooking that Overseer is not the only way to do what it does. In fact there is probably very few ways to do what Overseer does worse.
    Ileasa and Dre. like this.
  18. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Enough with the Overseer hate, we get it, you don't like it. But it is what we have, I don't see it going away any time soon or them adding anything else. I used to do Overseer on 5 accounts, but for the last couple of years I've only done it on 2. I don't need to do it, it's something to do while I'm waiting for my group to log in or while I'm waiting for raids to start.

    Exp has 2 curves, regular exp and AA exp, AA exp is in the right place, but unfortunatly this is at the expense of needing more exp per level.

    If they up the regular exp, we would gain AAs too fast and the price of AAs would need to sky rocket. We are already looking at over 50K AAs to max out. That number already puts players off, just imagine what it would do if that number was doubled.

    They need better catch up exp, be that through higher level hot zones or shrouds to max level or something else that adds to more exp for players level 100 - 115. This is what we should all be trying to get, not changes to Overseer.

    EQ is a victim of its own success, it is so large now with so many more zones players are spread too thinly. Hot zones were great when they came out for early levels and funneled players into the same zones, the problem now is some of the zones they changed them to are not great zones or take too long to travel to that players aren't bothering with them.
    Stymie and code-zero like this.
  19. sieger Augur

    Just dropping in to post the same thing I do anytime this comes up--which has been many times and all arguments have been repeated yet again.

    1. For the people who want regular mob leveling to be made easier, how much easier? Give me a specific amount of time investment for a group of players playing only through grinding mobs to level 5 times for a new expansion.

    2. As I also point out, I am not a power gamer, I don't box. I do the missions sure, but I get some of my XP from regular leveling. It just is not that slow. Regularly on a level expansion increase me and my group will grind a level or so manually in some high density mob area, it doesn't take that long to get a level by grinding. Someone dedicated to pure grinding, running Lesson into XP potion etc, likely could get the final five levels in less than 25 hours of grinding. I have pointed out in previous discussions I know of people doing just this in under 30 hours of /played.

    3. Everyone's time investment in the game is different, 30 hours /played is very small to me for an expansion launch of any MMO. I usually do around 40 hours of /played in the first week or so of a new expansion. This is actually fairly casual, in a new WoW expansion I often do 40 hours in the first 3 days, and I don't even go that hardcore at WoW. None of this is saying you have to play that way, but let's compare MMOs and other standards a bit, 30 hours of grind time for a full group to level is not that long.

    4. Some people will counter with "but as a soloer or solo+merc, I kill so slow it takes forever." I bet you do. The game isn't designed for single player progression. That's a whole other discussion--I personally think it would be fine to make the game more solo friendly, but I think the powers that be view the group-forward design as one of the things that distinguishes EQ from other MMOs and aren't willing to touch it.
  20. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Remember how we used to grind out levels 1-110? Yeah, go back to that because it literally worked just fine for 2 decades.
    Ileasa likes this.