Who Wants My Stuff?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lurikeen, Feb 2, 2023.

  1. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    Welcome to the outside world. Don’t limit yourself to only MMOs. There’s some good MMO-lites like Monster Hunter World and Destiny 2. Elden Ring is probably releasing a DLC soon. Divinity Original Sin 2 is an amazing RPG and you don’t need to play the original.

    There’s so many amazing games out there. EQ has its place, but it’s best to treat it as a seasonal game. Play during the anniversary month and you get the bonus experience and new expansion available to purchase, with a boost in population.
  2. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    Then, why would you choose to sit at the airport every day? It’s the official forums. People leave feedback.
  3. Alnitak Augur

    Oh boy!
    How, just how, have you managed to bring this utter garbage into the conversation?
    All the games you have listed are horrible trash. EQ is a head and shoulder above those in all aspects ... except eye-candy graphics. And 23 (soon 24) years of history shows that the graphics quality is not what EQ players find as an absolute must-have requirement.
    I suspect that EQ is not implementing modern stunning visual engine out of mercy: if EQ graphics bumps up to a moder level all other games will die in misery and abandonment.
  4. minimind The Village Idiot

    So, you want...
    1. Updated graphics
    2. Travel to be different (point and click teleport)
    3. The UI to be different
    4. The complexity to be significantly lessened
    5. The content to be different
    6. The trading system to be different
    7. The questing system to be different
    Just change all those things to emulate current triple-A titles and EQ will live forever? It sounds like you just want something else.
    Honest question: What does EQ do well that others don't?
  5. Name2 Augur

    There's a difference between complexity and bloat. Getting a carbon copy of the same spell or discipline every 5 levels is not complexity and leads to a bloated spell book and has detrimental effects on the UI in the way it lists out spells. EQ designers recognize that there are several spell lines in the game, as exhibited by the DoT revamp that's happened for several classes. It would be much less bloated if there was a single "Conflagration" spell for wizards, or a single "Breath of Ultor" spell for shamans that scaled well with player level, as opposed to a new version of the same thing every 5 levels, without changing complexity.

    If anything classes in EQ should be more complex than they currently are. It's hard to argue that there's deep complexity when a lot of them can or should be played with spammed multibinds, or people can play multiple different classes simultaneously with any level of success.
    Nennius likes this.
  6. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    This is a commonly used argument to excuse the dearth of developer participation on these forums. I'll refute it this way: how can the devs know what to work on if they are not engaging with their playerbase?

    Surely the devs could spend one minute responding to a player who is leaving? We are talking one minute here. That is a drop in the bucket compared to their daily duties as game devs.

    We also need to consider the public relations value in demonstrating to the EQ community that EQ devs are respectful of players and interested in their welfare. Knowing that the company that you pay money to cares about how consumers react to their products and services, makes players feel weclome and included. There's a lot of talk of inclusivity in our modern world. Where is the inclusivity for players with regard to the state of EverQuest?

    The concerns of players need to be addressed in an official capacity and in a methodical way. Devs are like unpredictable ultra rare spawns on these forums. They show up whenever they please with no sense of regularity and no sense of urgency. They cherry pick what questions they feel like answering. They also decide which bugs to fix too.

    Since there's no more FanFaires, the EverQuest community at the very least deserves a yearly Ask Me Anything (AMA) 3 hour live streaming video each year where players can ask the devs unscreened questions unlike the Blizzcon WoW dev Q&A dog and pony show.

    I'm not sure how many years Darkpaw thinks they have left to keep milking EverQuest. But, I wager it will be much shorter if they continue to ignore the steady stream of players quitting.
  7. KushallaFV Playing EverQuest

    Forgot to add Pokémon Go to my list for a true MMO experience, which far and away outdoes EQ.
  8. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    Vanguard outdid EQ in more ways than not. The game didn't perform well, there was a lot of graphics lag and memory leaks that caused CTDs.

    Daybreak owns the game, all they need to do is stabilize the engine and they have a huge (really huge) MMORPG that people can play!
    Metanis likes this.
  9. minimind The Village Idiot

    They don't need to respond to forum posts for the information in those forum posts to make it to them. They can read the post themselves and other staff can bring it to them in meetings. However, composing a post in such a way that doesn't obligate them or other staff to specific action takes a bit of time. Every forum post is effectively a public communication (just under the importance of a "press release").

    No. We're not talking about one minute. We're talking about digesting the post, understanding every nuance, responding to every nuance, and doing so with the sensitivity of a personal communication and the risk of being accused of disregarding or offending sensibilities or feelings.

    Moreover, if the developers are able to be summoned by every such post, then the tactic is validated as a means of forcing developer engagement. And suddenly they're talking about working instead of just working.

    That value diminishes very quickly when work isn't getting done.

    The developers work on a video game made for entertainment. They're not required to provide emotional support for the players.

    Inclusion is a complex concept and in most industries and for most products it's primarily about "not excluding". Anything above and beyond that is, well, above and beyond. Extra. Not necessary. Expensive in time, effort, or money.

    Incorrect. The problems of the game need to be addressed according to the policies of the company. "Concerns of players" is so extremely nebulous that to bow to that as an impetus for action is to surrender the business operations to the loudest of players.

    That's by design. The players do not control the game and they are not the managers of Daybreak staff.

    The players deserve what is contractually obligated by the purchase of the game and or subscription.

    You're suggesting that you know operational statistics. Daybreak is the only entity that knows their own subscription numbers, revenue, expenses, number of accounts active per month, and number of hours logged per account per month.

    Do you work for Daybreak or do you have another means of supporting your description of "steady stream of players quitting"?
    Rijacki likes this.
  10. Retty Lorekeeper

    I don't think a game being carried by a bunch of retired boomers pumping their social security checks into it is on the same level of acclaim as this:

    [IMG]

    but yeah, "utter garbage" lmao
    Sissruukk and FranktheBank like this.
  11. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    Players have no idea if devs are reading player's posts or acknowledging them. When the devs respond to posts, we at least know they are reading them. Of course they can't reply to every post, but their current level of enagement with players is neglible. Official surveys and polls that might reach a larger and more accurate audience beyond forum questors are not done either.

    Yes, it's just one minute. Saying "hello" or smiling to a person on the side walk only takes a few seconds, and goes a long way in building relationships. The customer and client relationship is extremely important. It is encumbent on Darkpaw to interact and enage with their customers in a professional manner that is consistent with modern business practices in 2023. Hiring outgoing, friendly, sociable employees who like to interact with people who pay their salaries would be a good start.

    Since Darkpaw is a small studio, the developers that work their have to wear many hats and it's all hands on deck. They need to rise to the challenge and step in and do things that they may not be experts in such as public relations and social media engagement.

    Not every such post, just enough to show they care and that they are responsive.

    We are far from that scenario which is I believe a strawman since the devs post so infrequently. Look at the class forums, I haven't seen one post in there by a dev. Ever. In a perfect world, developers should not be forced to engage their customers, they should want to do it because they care about the welfare of the players and the player experience.

    At the very least, they should have one bona fide developer assigned to the forums to reach out to players who are quitting and players who post serious greivances with the studio. If the devs were to address these online issues with more regularity then players would not have to post on the forums so much and the various white knights who run interference for them would be unemployed.

    I disagree. When you play a MMO, it's not like playing a video game like Angry Birds or buying a cheeseburger which is transactional. People are living alternate lives in virtual worlds. This requires players to invest a huge part of their free time and financial resources. They need to know that the devs care about them and are sympathetic to their concerns. It's not that hard to do. All they have to do is to show up and start enaging with the community with a semblance of ethusiasm and authenticity.

    Inclusion is not complex at all. All they have to do is start including players/customers and being more considerate of player's (who actually play EQ) opinions. Every successful company in the world understands this now. Toyota and other forward thinking companies spend time living with their customers to get to know their wants and needs.

    This strawman argument is routinely trotted out to make excuses for the devs lack of engagment with the players. Asking for players to show some occasional human kindness to players who are leaving EQ after many years is not too much to ask.

    I look at the OP's post as an exit interview. Exit interviews conducted with staff who are leaving or customers who are leaving are excellent forms of feedback which invariably helps decrease staff turnover and increases customer satisfaction. Smart companies do this, stupid companies do not.

    We are not in a court of law where legalistic arguments are being used to justify ignoring customers. This is the court of public opinion that often decides the fates of corporations and gaming studios.

    I suggested no such thing.

    It's common sense to know this. EQ is an old MMO as many of their supporters love to claim. Some old MMOs like EQ have not kept up with the times and are sold to investment bankers. Other old MMOs like Blizzard's WoW have kept pace with the times and modernized their code base, their dev tools, player outreach, and their studio culture over the year. As a result, they are hugely successful.

    Another issue is that a significant number of EQ players are boomers who are entering the twilight of their lives. EQ players are passing away in greater numbers with each coming year. Demographics is destiny.

    The TLP nostalgia model is running out of steam. Players are getting bored of the same TLP routine. Don't expect players to put up with this indefinately.

    The big picture is that Darkpaw is running out of creative gas. The studio is chronically understaffed. They continue to release untested cookie cutter expansions that aren't well recieved by the players.Very little social media outrach and promotion is being done. There are no dev livestreams at all. There's a general lack of innovation at the studio. No attempt is made to fix longstanding issues or polish the content of older expansions.

    Unless Darkpaw releases a new version of EverQuest, the franchise as it currently stands is ultimately untennable as a future source of revenue for EG7.
  12. Act of Valor The Newest Member

  13. Razorfall Augur

    I disagree
    Act of Valor likes this.
  14. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    So you're complaining that my post was a wall of text? Nobody is forcing you to come to the forums and discuss EQ or read my post.

    In the time it took you to find that graphic and post it, you could have read my reply.
  15. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    Of course you do. And this is why EQ remains an obscure, unpopular MMORPG.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur



    They get that from the people who make the decisions on the direction and goals for the game? It isn't the job of devs to communicate with players on the forums.
  17. Burdi Augur

    I understand your statements and partially agree with them.
    However it is normal to feel sometimes unmotivated, or to feel that the time should be used in a more relevant way.
    Enjoy your break.
    You might want to keep you stuff, as you might feel like playing someday.
    Cheers
  18. Buds Augur

    EQ was one of the best games ever. Anyone, like myself, lucky enough to have experienced it from the very beginning, know how amazing it was and kinda still is.

    EQ needs a facelift, no question about that. They are improving the UI, which is very needed. Like you said, you have bar after bar after bar of AAs etc to click and clutter up the screen. Need more automation or consolidation of things for sure.

    How about an expansion that doesn't have ice or isn't on another planet? Come back to the original EQ, where it was more normal of a world. Deserts, Jungles, Plains, dungeons etc.. Everything is so dark and dreary in most zones now. Guk or Sol part 2?

    Another class or two would be AMAZING! That would breathe so much more life into the game. Also, more AA lines or new abilities. When AA was introduced, it added so much life to the game. This game would have been done long ago without it. We need AA part 2 now.

    I do agree the bazaar also needs to improve and at least get rid of that stupid 2M limit, so people don't fill up the general chat with WTS/WTB all day.

    EQ is a fantastic game, just needs some new additions and improvements.
  19. Razorfall Augur

    *blinks in WTF*

    Ya got one right :p
  20. Brontus EQ Player Activist


    If the EQ franchise was properly managed over the past 24 years it would have millions of subcribers today.