EQ suffers from what every other MMO suffers from. Unnecessary complexity.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Strawberry, Dec 19, 2022.

  1. Strawberry Augur

    Pretty much. I think a problem with Pantheon is that they are inexperienced developers working on a complex project.

    The developers seem to be learning as they go, and have no idea how long something will take. That's fine for a small indie project that might be delayed with a year, but that's not fine for a complex game that might never get finished.

    I also have a feeling that Pantheon seems to have no problem not releasing the game at all. Similar to how Star Citizen feels no obligation to ever release the game as long as they can entice players and investors with perks and promises.

    -The developers behind Star Citizen can finish and release the game and have the experience to do so. They just choose not to.

    -The developers behind Pantheon can't finish and release the game because they don't seem to have the experience and knowledge to do so. They have to choose not to.

    But both seem to benefit from not releasing the game, by introducing paid tiers, paid beta/alpha, luring investors, etc. They seem to actively benefit financially by leaving the games in an unfinished limbo state.
    Iven likes this.
  2. Zeoni Journeyman

    This is your Answer $ to What will we Do if The player Numbers go Down as is We don't have to worry about that. So take as long to release as want because the Money for Alpha, Beta is coming in. Like it or Not the First Day of Release is going to be big but after a while people will leave if your not prepared for that your going to panic when the answer is easy (Give them something to come back for New Race, New Zone or an Exp or any other reason that says you have not gave up on the Game). Release a Game an Easy one Doing the Hard Work after is kind hard. Like I Said most that want Games like these Remember when Players Had 1 Game and Never Left so the Developers had it easy But they still Made Exp. So Why can't they get it when the Player base goes from Game to Game never staying in One Game when the answer was always there.
  3. Iven Antonius Bayle

    Old EQ zones are usually much smaller than newer ones and mounts made them to appear even more small. The old starting cities do appear like dollhouses with mounts and fast run speed. I would disable the use of mounts in such zones. Back in the days Norrath was totally fine without mounts and so it is on P99.

    Mounts were enforced by John Smedley during TSoL and he had no idea and concept about the negative effects they added to many zones, classes and game mechanics. Medding on mounts is ok but the run speed that fast mounts do grant including Selo's and other buffs can be way overpowered. New zones now have to be constructed much larger just because of advanced run speed bonuses which does produce more game costs OR less zones. Seven zones instead of nine or ten smaller ones. Classes with run speed buffs (RNG, DRU, SHM, BRD) got weakened by the mount feature. Fast run speed does also has a negative effect to the game immersion and does turn smaller and dense zones (E.g. dungeons) into unrealistic dollhouses.
  4. Iven Antonius Bayle

    In one word: Vaporware.
  5. Zeoni Journeyman

    Yes All of EverQuest 1999 are Doll Houses and all very tiny Zones even Faydark \ Butcherblock is tiny Compared to new Zones but they were trying to make the Main Game in 3 Years. You see Mistmoor now that place is suppost to be Scary and 1 look and 911 will need to be called before you laugh yourself to Death. It's like I get the idea they were in a Hurry but jeeze . John Smedley should of knew how bad it would be since He was 1 of the Developers that Made EverQuest that putting the Mounts in the old Zones would be bad.
  6. Juzam_Djinn Elder


    Cities aren't the zones you are traveling through to get to places. All four Karanas are terrible, three of them are basically Kansas, miles and miles of miles and miles, only two really have anything going for them and only one realistically has any kind of camps. Iceclad Ocean (not including the actual ocean part which is just nothing), The Eastern Wastes, The Dreadlands, The Emerald Jungle and Trakanon's Teeth, these are all huge zones with not a whole lot happening, mostly being empty space with some mobs sprinkled about that are in the way of other places. God forbid I mention other boat based zones like The Timorous Deep where you had to wait on boats and the zones were like 80%+ empty space.

    Imagine thinking that not wasting the player's time is overpowered. Just using the zones I listed and running in straight lines (not strafing and thus running even faster), it takes just a hair under 1:30 from the Iceclad zoneline to hit The center of the ww fort, and three minutes exactly to hit The Great Divide on a fast mount. From that zone line it's a 1:20 to Thurgadin. From the Druid port in in The Dreadlands it takes a minute to get out into the snowy part of the zone, another 1:45 to hit the zone in to Karnor's, then roughly a minute to hit Firiona Vie. Jesus, there's nothing even going on in the appendix of the Dreadlands where port spells put you.

    I'm offended when I go into some zone thats new to me, since I hadn't played in years, and I can't use my mount. Hell, there were times when I was still playing when that was the case and it was annoying then.
    Dre. and Nennius like this.
  7. Nennius Curmudgeon

    There is a reason that Dorothy preferred Oz to Kansas. The Karanas are mostly timesinks on the way to somewhere else. On the other hand, if something were to happen to alter those zones many players wouldn't object.
  8. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    Well said and so much for the argument that mounts caused them to make bigger, emptier zones. Zones that were added at the same time as the mounts, the original Luclin zones (when mounts were added), were more populated that many of the old huge zones and not as spacious.

    Besides, mounts don't work in indoor zones and most of the destination zones (vs cross-over) are still indoor. Most of the big outdoor zones are intended to be cross-over maybe with pockets of mob clusters. That's true even with the original zones up to Kunark.

    As for runspeed spells/songs, I have 2 bards. One is 120 and the other is now 85. The fastest mount is still not faster than my 120 bard when she's singing her highest runspeed songs.

    And woe for the quests that required you to go to one end or the other and then back for single steps if you were on a character without a runspeed spell or, later, a mount.
    Aenvar likes this.
  9. Iven Antonius Bayle

    I like travelling through the Karanas because they are more immersive than many smaller zones where you just zone, zone, zone with fast changing tapestries inbetween. Slow PCs still can use the druid and spire ports in NK ;). Large zones are more than just timesinks.

    Instead of fast mounts it would had been better to add more open good connected port locations like it was done in LDon with the wayfarer camps and in Shard's Landing. Kunark definetly was a pain for travelling with only 2-3 poorly placed port locations and many big outdoor zones. On the other side it was a very immersive player experience and the continent appeared huge and wild.
  10. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    Don't touch my Karanas, please. Totally chill zones.
  11. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    People are not playing Everquest and games like it in order to travel and explore the world. It does no good to focus on that aspect of the game when that is not what is drawing in players. While it is nice to have a big world that you can explore for players that want to do that it does nothing to draw in or keep players that don't.
    Rijacki likes this.
  12. Juzam_Djinn Elder


    It's not like there's anything to explore in some of those zones, especially North and West Karana. Exploration in an MMORPG isn't really rewarding like it is in something like a single player RPG either.
  13. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    As much as I love travelling and exploring (in real life as in game), if I am trying to meet up with a group or have a limited time to accomplish a goal, forced travel becomes a trial and not a pleasure. With a character without a port or runspeed spell, some of the larger zones can be nothing but a time sink (and time sink is not challenge or entertainment).

    But the allegation put forth is that the introduction of mounts is why there are big zones with few mobs. And that just ain't so. I often go back to the original zones and they're more vacant than some of the newer zones of the same size (i.e. the zones were directly reused even). Density of mobs and sizes of zones has absolutely nothing to do with mounts. The larger zones had areas in them of mob concentrations which is why there were 'camps' for grinding that pretty much defined themselves. That, too, has not changed other than now, in the more recent expansions, they're 'camps' for specific quest targets.
  14. Zeoni Journeyman

    Sorry but yes to touching Karanas all 4 of them (North, South, East & West) to make 1 Karanas that would stop players from Scream my mount goes through 1 part of Karanas in 1 Minute 45 sec. it'll take up about 4 mins and longer walking it. But what people enjoy of Karanas would still be there. But yes I saw that :( I said leave it alone now it's bigger and I to enjoy it more. Yes I like Karanas in EverQuest 2 better except it looks like a minefield went off:( But at least doesn't look like Jagged Forrest (What they did to that would make the river flow with tears) in a Desert that will not help much.
  15. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Sure travel time can be fun - if you are solo.
    Zeoni likes this.
  16. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    EQ2 is set after a major calamity that tore the world apart into islands. Of course the landscape in many places will look as if a minefield went off.
    Zeoni likes this.
  17. Zeoni Journeyman

    Plus Back then they were in a Hurry to Beat WoW.
  18. Nennius Curmudgeon

    So you're saying they blew up the wrong world?
  19. Zeoni Journeyman

    Lets See Developers of World of Warcraft followed EverQuest 1 idea, Developers of Final Fantasy 11 Followed EverQuest 1. EverQuest 2 Developers Blow up their World. EQN Developers Followed EverQuest 1 idea but in Voxel form.. Until Cancelled. So Who did what Now? Final Fantasy 14 Followed World of Warcraft idea. Like Someone Said Daybreak Game issue is they don't want to Top what came before So EQ2 Doesn't Replace EQ1 and EQN didn't Replace EQ2 or EQ1. See the issue If We Replace what we have well we can't have that. Where Most Developers would Just love to Remake Games (FF7R, RE2R,RE3,RE4) Daybreak Games
  20. Dre. Altoholic

    Probably should have moved the West Karana spires to Qeynos Hills.

    I'd have put a translocator NPC that can port players between spires.