Motivation To Play Clerics

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Karliv, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Roxxanna Augur

    The only thing my return to EQ accomplished was to question my return to EQ.
    Metanis likes this.
  2. Gundolin Augur

    But we miss you Roxxanna. :) stay safe and have fun.
  3. Lluianae Elder

    Outside of raids thus far, NoS feels like quite a let down for me as a Cleric.

    With how few AAs we were given and how readily AAs are acquired this expansion, Llu who still had ToL focus AAs left to grab, was done with all AAs, including TS and Glyphs, pretty swiftly. There's a lot more that could have been added that would have helped the class a good deal in various regards.

    Spells? Appreciable upgrades but nothing that grabs me.

    Missions were neat initially, now I barely do anything on my Cleric while my SK can sustain himself. I always joke how given her age she's fallen asleep on the job because there's so little to do.

    Now with Challenger, Hunter and Paragon done, it leaves grinding for Collectibles and getting con exp for the Cloak, and I'm really feeling how our 6 stack would be better off with literally anything other than myself on my main to speed up the whole process. It's been a while since I last felt my main was purely a raid trophy where previously it was still fun to swing the hammer and feel like I was contributing something more meaningful beyond overheal. With NoS it's exacerbated further by the sheer increase in npc hp.

    I don't know what all happened during the Beta, but I can't help but have the gnawing feeling that much in terms of suggestions and ideas for us fell on deaf ears.
    Annastasya likes this.
  4. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Going back to ToV, my cleric feels more like a less stupid merc than an actual playable character...with regards to group stuff. At least in ToV, I could load up undead spells and feel like I was making a contribution.

    I 3-box, and my tank is an SK, so he's able to self heal through most stuff. Most of the time Vel, just stands there and I only click over to him when I need to reapply Shining or DI...maybe throw out the occassional group/patch heal or cure. For the most part though, the cleric feels like a dead weight anchor.

    Missions do keep me occupied depending on group make-up, but that's maybe 4 times a night...for just a few minutes each time. The rest of the evening is just him standing there leeching AA xp. I suppose if I was ONLY playing the cleric, I could try to focus on my pathetic DPS and at least pretend I'm contributing. But when boxing (alt-tabbing) and doing the tanking, the cleric is just dead weight on most stuff.
    Joules_Bianchi and Lluianae like this.
  5. Tucoh Augur

    I was kind of disappointed there wasn't a lot of AE damage in any of the missions or named. There isn't a "The Crusaders" or "The Call" type mission like in CoV that can really make clerics break a sweat trying to keep everyone alive and motivate other players to make friends with clerics so they are available for those high damage missions.
  6. ISmellLikeInnySwamp Augur

    At which expansion do clerics become overkill for group content?
  7. Lluianae Elder

    Most of our healing potential has never been needed for group content since pretty much the start, you could make a case that for sustain, CH was defining - and for all the worst reasons. It's just early on we had to be much more conservative with our mana as it was a premium.

    As our Spec Alt improved, we gained SCM, Adept, Gift, FT, bigger mana pools, our mana sustain improved considerably to the point you could, since early expansions, rely more on HoTs with stuns, Yaulp, swing away with your hammer and even nuke some. You could arb and CR for further mana sustain, epic 1.5-2. PR helped free up our cast times. Things such as mana regen on Yaulp, GoM made sustain even more trivial.

    Where we could better hold our own was in Oh moments with multiple mobs, provided we didn't die from heal aggro, or in trying to keep up with tanks that were considerably undergeared.

    I'll still argue that most of our healing potential isn't even needed on raids, and that's even when doing things short-handed with healers present. The main challenge by design that presents itself then is when there's a myriad of stuns because it's preventing me from doing my job and when short-handed, that hurts a lot more.

    It's interesting when you can coast along most encounters in ToL with Recourse/Grace topping off your group from Interventions and Contraventions, where the main time dedicated group heals are needed is with frequent/heavy damage AoEs (Doomshade, Zel transitions, PV) and even then the bulk of that should be covered by Splashes, Squalls, IoC and MGB heals. Fights like Aten and FtG only become more interesting to heal when mistakes happen, then we can shine as recovery specialists.

    Velisaris, we're in a similar boat. Additionally, I have boxed both of my alts on raids as well on every encounter our guild has cleared with my Cleric. Sure, my quality of Cleric play isn't anywhere near as good as it could be doing so, but that goes back to the prior point - our best and most is rarely required to beat anything.

    I would say that the most healing I've had to do in NoS group missions was when we first learned how to do Mean Streets, but that was all due to some buggy interactions in tandem with the curse DoT, lots of thugs, tigers, apparitions and the fire nukes Jake was dishing out. Once we streamlined our strat, it was much simpler.

    The thing is, the devs cannot design content to require a level of a Cleric's potential that would push away the other priests, and unfortunately, Cleric mercs. We're at that point where the playerbase just is not there and content must be accessible enough. Once upon a time I helped balance Ashengate to be challenging enough to raiders like me. I believe I did that with Nodyin. Then on release, people complained about AG and FC being too hard, and so Rashere had the content be toned down. It was a humbling lesson to pay attention to the bigger picture when it comes to an MMO's playerbase. I can't push for content that's more fun for people like me if it ends up excluding a majority.

    This is why I'm focusing more on angles that would make things more engaging and fun for Cleric mains, the few of us still around, outside of healing paradigm changes. It worked several times in the past with additions like Ward of Retribution and my own VoV. It isn't much to ask that we not stagnate as hard as we have over the decade+ I was gone, and the time I've since been back.
    Emilari, Annastasya, Dre. and 2 others like this.
  8. ISmellLikeInnySwamp Augur

    Edit: Thanks for the detailed reply.

    I just can't pull myself away from a Cleric and move towards a Paladin. The only class which I've enjoyed equally to a Cleric has been a Shaman. I always return to the Cleric class, even when groups prefer other classes to heal. Slay undead is pretty cool though. I really should give Paladin a try someday.
    Twelvestrings likes this.
  9. Szilent Augur

    I find Slay Undead is mostly cool for parsing programs, not for players. Not for me as a player, at least. Enemy hp is so high that a few very large hits thrown in doesn't feel like OH YOU CHOPPED EM IN HALF, it's… some added damage. Getting to use a full grip of Doctrine nukes is cool, though.

    Vanquish the Fallen ought to be Harmtouch level damage.
    Waitwhat and TsiawdMS like this.
  10. ISmellLikeInnySwamp Augur

    At which expansions do Paladins really shine?
  11. Szilent Augur

    The core precis of paladin is tank that can heal. That's strong in all eras. And Slay Undead procs are good procs to have. I'm just saying "for Slay Undead" is a sketchy reason to make/play a paladin.
    code-zero likes this.
  12. ISmellLikeInnySwamp Augur

    I'm just wrestling with the thought of going Shaman, Bard, and Paladin for the next tlp because a Paladin is so easy to gear due to fewer paladins in guilds. An SK over a PAL would be an easy choice to make, but I have never enjoyed the death knight class. I also worry that I'll dislike the Paladin class after multiple expansions too.
  13. MelediWeaver Journeyman

    My motivation to start a cleric in 2001 was role play. When I thought over who could be truly evil, I decided a religious fanatic who could justify anything in the name of her god was perfect. Unfortunately, role play is scarce now, and the only reason I still play a cleric as a main is raiding. In group content I box a mage and enchanter too - and my partner does the SK / necro / wizard. If I was only able to play a cleric, and had to rely on guild groups I would no longer be playing. Every expansion, the cleric maxes her AAs way before the other characters, and looks in vain for a new spell toy.
  14. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    Tutorial
    Waitwhat, Metanis, Emilari and 2 others like this.
  15. Nylrem Augur

    There is a very simple solution to this whole issue.

    Give clerics wizard-ish nuke damage increasing AA, make ALL nukes, including interventions and contraventions, ON PAR with wizard base damage nukes per cast time.

    Done and done.

    Clerics still wouldn't have all the activated abilities, twincasts, crit potential, etc, of actual caster DPS classes, but at least their nukes could actually add some halfway noticeable damage.

    Pretty simple solution, IMO.
    bbanz, Metanis, Emilari and 1 other person like this.
  16. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    Here's a better reason!


    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=883

    That's a mighty fine carrot you have there.
    code-zero likes this.
  17. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    From a roleplay and archetype vs hybrid archetype standpoint, hybrid classes typically gain the primary archetype abilities later, with less potency at times, or even general functionality. An enchanter for instance, can cast swift Like the Wind on a level 1, a shaman can not.

    the CLERIC is the base archetype of the Hybrid paladin's abilities, therefor all of it's undead capability is derived from? Prayer.

    Cleric Vs Undead should be noticeably higher.

    Cleric Vs any unnatural race or creature should as well, regardless of it's corporeal existence.

    Want more group functionality out of clerics? Expand this line of weapons beyond the one per expansion heal recourse and add rune proc types or other short term buffs..

    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=19349

    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=69449

    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=76948

    There could be different types of weapons with more profound priest based effects, like componentless group DI or bane damage vs anything unnatural with cleric in group, etc.

    Bards get gospel music, but priests don't? There is MUCH room to make PLAYED clerics more desireable than a merc who doesn't compete for loots.


    Some utility for a change would help.

    Next new expansion feature?

    Clerics get a hymnal.
    itzagame_m8s likes this.
  18. Fenthen aka Rath

    And make all cleric spells passthrough. Let me target the main raid mob, and "heal" it, thus healing whatever tank is currently on that mob. Give me auto splash as a proc to heals, or as part of a "healing disc" or something.

    Clerics shouldn't be just hitpoint whack-a-mole champions.
    bbanz likes this.
  19. Yukaan the Bear Journeyman

    damn, this thread hasn't died yet...
    Metanis likes this.
  20. Oldeqplayer Journeyman

    I wonder if clerics could get an AA that turns their heal spells into damage spells against mobs.

    One line can be against undead and another line against summoned and maybe another against heretics of your religion and so on…

    One line could turn off the ability to heal for the trade of high damage conversions relative to the heal values.

    Sure developers could develop someway to tune the way you can transform your healing ability from gods to damage and maybe that evil cleric has the edge there lol.