This is just some feedback from a chronically returning player that just wants to see some love for a forgotten stepchild of the game. I don't think they need that much more in the way of damage, but what they can do should be a little bit easier for them to do. Especially with other classes easing their way up the damage comparisons while having much higher utility and QoL options. With that said, I think that there is room for QoL updates for every class, this is just my own thoughts for the class I'm most familiar with. New Rogue Class AA - Mug. In combat Pick Pocket attempt. New Rogue Class AA - Tracking. Allow Rogue to track targets up to a max of 100 skill. (Possibly unlocked in steps) New Rogue Class AA - Disabling Disarm - When Disarm is used in Combat apply either a damage reduction or slow to the enemy target. (Similar to how they expanded the use of Intimidation.) Update Rogue Class AA - Chaotic Stab - Expand this line and allow 100% of backstabs to deal full damage when not behind the target. Increases would also improve the chances of a Double or Triple Backstabs when not behind the target. New Archetype AA - Combat Awareness - Reduces damage of Rampage and other close range Melee AoEs. (Should also be available for Monk and possibly Berserker. Anyone who is a pure melee character and doesn't have a ton of mitigation.) Update Archetype AA - Physical Enhancement - Extend this AA line and scale it to 16 ranks. One for 115 and one for 120. Update Archetype AA - Killing Spree - Have this apply on all of your non-trivial kills, not just the ones that you provided the killing blow for. Update General AA - Innate Run Speed increase to 10 (Match with Bard/Monk/Etc) New Rogue Combat Ability - Expansion to Agile-Footed Discipline (Level 99). Add previous benefits plus additional damage mitigation for a new ability at higher levels possibly at 114 or 119. New Rogue Combat Ability - Would like to see some sort of lull combat ability to allow Rogues to split pull a bit easier. That would allow them to solo a little easier as well as function as pullers and scouts for their group. Update Poisons so they no longer have a charge counter. Simply count it as a duration buff that needs to be refreshed at the end of the duration. That way they no longer have to be repeatedly applied in the middle of combat. Update Hide/Sneak so they are able to be used while on a mount. Update Autoskills to possibly allow for Intimidate and Disarm to be used automatically.
If you think rogues are the forgotten stepchild.. then you need to re-evaluate your understanding of the game.
I can provide answers to some of these: While this would be fun, there really isn't much to pickpocket off of mobs in combat today except for coin. Plus, doing it the old-fashioned way still works pretty well. We have poisons that pretty much do the same thing (except for damage reduction, it is atk reduction) I like the idea that we are "forced" into the rear arc to maximize our damage. Shadow's Flanking makes this even more a reason to be "forced" into the back arc. Practiced Reflexes help with this. Pain in the butt to keep it up, but if you have GINA running with the right rogue package, it will tell you when it drops so you can refresh. Just a pain in the butt when you are pressing other buttons as well, so it just becomes muscle memory at a certain point. The "smoke" lines work well for this. Level 120 is Agitating Smoke, can "mez" up to level 123 mobs so you can even pull a named out of a group. The only downside is z-axis and line-of-sight, so it is just learning how to use it. But, this is fun to use on someone new to rogue doing pulls, as when you drop the smoke bomb, it lights up the xtar window. You can do this, but it is a little wonky. When you summon your mount, hit sneak/hide (or hide/sneak) before the cast bar ends, and bingo, you are SoS'd on a mount. The only downside is that you either have to drop the mount to unhide/sneak or do something like enter combat or cast something to do it while still on the mount. Also, you have to drop the mount and redo the steps I described again to SoS on a mount again. So, on this one, I can agree that we should be able to SoS on a mount while riding it.
As a rogue myself, I'm always interested in hearing other's views on how to improve the class. Most of the issues you bring up are somewhat core to the class itself, or already has workarounds that you just aren't aware of. Sissruukk hit a lot of the major points already. Removing the need for positioning for backstabbing just makes it...stabbing. I understand the perspective of it being 'limiting', but it's one of two things that literally define the class itself. With the relatively recent change to how pickpocket works, I don't view it as a worthwhile thing to think about anymore. Tracking is a neat thought, and I remember some thoughts over the years that rogues being able to track specifically in dungeon zones would make 'some' sort of sense, but otherwise it's just kind of cherry-picking other class skills. Kind of like asking for the necro ability to raise the dead for the lore reason of 'Well, a rogue could Shroud of Stealth and pick up the mob corpse and move it around like a puppet." (Upon further review, I don't hate this idea). Being able to mitigate rampage damage would be nice, admittedly, but I assume the devs just view it as a cost of doing business for being a melee. Practiced Reflexes will -not- help in the area, by the way. That skill only drops you from the hate list of the mob hitting you, it does nothing to reduce the damage taken. As far as pulling/mezzing goes, I can pull better as a rogue than pretty much anyone besides a bard. We have multiple fast refreshing traps/skills that let us do really impressive things when it comes to pulling once you get the hang of it. Go to a lower level zone and play around with the traps, Gutsy Escape, and the Blinding line. I would personally LOVE poisons that last longer, but I feel like that should only come in the form of more charges per poison vial. Having said that, I wouldn't say no to the buff idea if it existed. Hopefully this doesn't come across as dismissive to your ideas. I am glad to have read them. If nothing else, perhaps you are aware of a few more abilities and skills that you didn't know you could already perform.
What Sissruuk said. I have mained a rogue for some time now and I think your ideas are outside of what we should have. People want all classes to have all the things these days. I think it would weaken this game. Rogues are a forgotten stepchild and fading away DPS-wise. I have heard it all now. Rogues are great pullers if you know how to use one properly. Splitting is no issue. Escape refreshes pretty quick and that also helps if you need to use that until you learn how to do split pulls. Get a staff of Viral Flux and use your smoke bomb. Target the one you want to pull, run up and place the bomb, back up and use the staff clicky. Once mobs hit the bomb, use your range attack to pull the one you targeted. Escape button is your bailout if you are new to this style. Practiced Reflexes is a great tool. You can use it to get max back time and have your cleric merc tank some when moloing. I use it like Siss does. It doesn't mitigate, but lets you know when you get hit. That can be useful. There is never a time when I don't have practiced reflexes up. Rogues are in a very good spot. Sounds like you need to be more familiar with how to get the most out of one. In the right hands, a rogue is a serious customer in group play and raids. If you need help or have questions, look up Pungas on Discord and I will help if I can. There is a rogue discord server where you can learn to be deadly.
I'll have to mess around with the smoke line a bit more. Admittedly, I've not messed with that one too much and could likely benefit from a bit of practice on it. Was unaware that it was typically used as a primary option for split pulls. It always seemed a bit unreliable the few times that I did use it but that may just be due to it being finnicky. As far as DPS goes.. Yeah, Rogues are pretty good at DPS. Especially when it comes down to burst damage. However, when looking at sustained damage or just raid damage in general the raids I've attended tends to have pet classes toward the top of the list. Magicians, Necromancers, Beast Lord, etc. Berserkers are also pretty high on the list along with Bards. It's not like it's a complete runaway of Rogues being on top of everyone else justifying the additional complexity and restrictions of their mechanics. I for one am all for starting a dialogue of anything that may help make the class more fun to play and make it more accessible to people that play it.
Yep, just a matter of practicing and seeing what works or not for you. I do my pulling a bit different than Belexes. I actually go into the group of mobs and drop my bomb, then use precise dagger throw to yank one out. But, sometimes terrain/z-axis/LoS forces me to use more of a Belexes-type pull. If you run your rotations right, you can hold a good, sustained damage. I need to find the thread in the Melee section of the forums here for the link to the Rogue Discord. All of the top-notch high-end raid rogues are there with tons of information. Even non-rogues, like Sancus, are there to explain certain dynamics of how disciplines, procs, and other things work. I am not shooting down your ideas, I think some would be cool to have something like tracking. But rogues are pretty fun as it is, at least for me. Edit: Found the thread - Rogue Discord server | EverQuest Forums (daybreakgames.com)
Don't laugh because it's an unlikely pipe dream. However, I've always wanted rogues to get kick and believe it would be valuable for increased DPS in classic to live. Monks get punches and kicks and for rogues to not have a kick has never really made sense to me. I cant stab and kick at the same time? If they could mitigate the damage appropriately - I'd like to see them implement 2hand piercers. Hear me out. 2hp backstabs?! It would feel amazing dropping big chunky numbers. Unfortunately, I know we are never going to get that - no matter how cool it would be. Track would be cool but most people are using track while playing.
Just because Monks are also a forgotten stepchild of the game doesn't mean that Rogues aren't as well.
Monks should get an equivalent to ranger headshot, rogue assassinate, and zerker decapitate. That would be pretty awesome. Rogues are in a good spot for the most part, which is why we look like we are the forgotten stepchild because devs don't need to pay attention to us. Plus, the rogue community is pretty cool about helping each other understand our class.
QOL opportunities from the perspective of a leveling-up character: Sneak attack line should be tied to sneak skill rather than hide skill Key skills (backstab/hide/sneak) combat skill-up mechanics. Sneak speed nerf removed at lvl 1 instead of 60 Poisoncraft skill requirements (200+ for some in the 50's...?) Those are kind of nitpicks, the biggest problem for leveling up Rogues is that they need a tank AND a healer to function properly, which is crippling when it comes to the ability to solo. This is somewhat of an issue for Monks and Berserkers, but particularly bad for Rogues due to the loss of backstab. The core issue here is the absolutely oppressive dependency on external healing for most classes in EQ. It is absurd how utterly incapable most classes are of recovering even the smallest amount of incidental damage. Base HP regen and healing potion systems need a serious overhaul.
Completely agree with you here. Some of the biggest issues that I've had have been the loss of my backstab. It's gotten a bit better as I've leveled up and unlocked AA's, but I still can't hope to take on anything close to current content with just my healer merc. I'll need to be completely raid geared just to hope to maybe kill a single target with my merc out. The problem is, everyone's answer to this has typically been to just create and level up multiple other characters and to start multiboxing them.. Honestly, I'd prefer it even more if DB added the ability to unlock additional merc party slots. Even if it cost $20 per additional slot and was still limited by your merc stable. Doing this and then maybe adding a few new types of mercs like a watered down shaman and bard for buffs and songs would honestly make the game much more palatable to me. Lot of people seem to be against anything that would make the game more casual friendly though.
Another idea I wanted to throw on here.. Thought it would be neat if each time a target was hit with a damage poison, they got a short duration stacking debuff (3-5 stacks cap) that increased the amount of damage they take from the next poison proc. Just to take additional damage from excessive exposure to the poison.
