How often are you running into this kind of scenario though? This sounds like an issue that could be solved in a thousand better ways than switching tanks.
If you're using mercenary healers, it happens a lot. The bottom line is, do you want to box shadow knight + shaman, or do you want to box paladin + necromancer. Without three box it is very hard to cover all bases. Shadow knights don't have cures or heals and those can be very important when facing difficult content. So you need a shaman. Paladins don't have the ability to pull well, and have low damage, so necromancer helps with that.
As Gnomeland says, it is about having enough to cover the rest of the group (mercs) and, to me, about not having to reactively switch to the other box, I can do it from the main char. I hate boxing, so not having to pay that much attention to a box (and you REALLY want to play attention to the healer!) is a bonus. I won't stop playing the SK but it may become part of my second box set or for grouping when I am not boxing by myself.
Pally AE snap aggro is fine. They just don't have the sustained AE agro from _____ Disruption or AE Nukes.
Now that I've switched to SK, I agree. Paladin AE snap aggro is totally fine and the disparity between SK and paladin AE aggro does NOT need to be looked at. *furiously mashes the insidious line*
There is no way that this set up produces more dps on the 90% of content that is not undead than putting a shaman instead of a paladin as a healer. This is like intentionally making bad decisions just to see if they work. Sure, you could run 6 paladins and survive but it would be a horrible and slow and bad dps group.
uh no. The only situation that paladin snap agro is fine, is when you are boxing all the toons and have a high degree of discipline with your assisting. In a group with 6 real people that are not necessarily assisting, or with dot classes throwing dots on a pile of mobs a paladin struggles to keep agro on all the mobs. Its actually surprising that you think the disparity between paladin and SK ae agro is not a massive disparity. Not that I think paladins should do as much ae agro as SK's. SKs absolutely have and should keep the extreme amount of ae agro they produce.
Its probably the single most powerful spell that you can load on a spell bar in the entire game, and that includes the agro component.
Dichotomic Fury would like a word. Spiritual Shower. Nature's F'ing Wrath, Pyre of Va Xakra, Relentless Servant measure themselves along a different axis, but it can hardly be said that they're overall less impactful when cast than Insidious. All the above are so powerful that the appropriate caster not using them as much as can possibly be arranged is completely failing at their classes' play. Your own Valiant spell heals for more than Insidious, less conditionally, and only makes less agro if the tank isn't getting damaged. You may be sad most of the time that Valiant doesn't deal (moderate) damage like Insidious does, but that's occasionally a feature, too. And, yeah, Insidious/Valiant are powerful core spells for the knight classes, but "most powerful spell…in the entire game"? ehhhh. Both knights can still be said to be playing their class without even touching their versions of this. That's a heck of a knock to their potential status as "most powerful"
Never said it would - he was just considering running a Paladin as a healer for the extra DPS it would produce on undead mobs. Only thing I was commenting on.
OK, so now that I have my pallie and my new SK to 115 and geared, I have some thoughts about the paladin. DPS on undead is way better than I expected. WAY better. It is way more spammy that an SK. Rez is a life-saver while grouping. I miss FD and hates attraction. Now, for the questions. I die far too much. With the SK (with a healer), I can tank 5 112 mobs, no problem. With the pallie, I always die. Normally because the heals take too long to cast. What is your setup for tanking multiples? Is there anything like the epic that lets you tank a bit better, even temporarily, by healing?
What are you talking about? I am usually my group puller and if I wanted to pull singles could do it all day with pacify. You should always have two burst heals loaded.
You're probably not casting enough spells on the SK. Have you made a Divine Call button? If you mean the specific combo of HA & FD to pull, do you mem the Pacify spell (Placating Words at 111, upgrade at 116)?
Gross. Do you stack discs/AAs while tanking? 5 mobs shouldn't be a problem with a sword and board out on a paladin...but that's with appropriate gear, development, augging, AAs.... Spire/GAoTI or AoTI, stacked with either Armor, Mantle or Guardian lines? Blood Drinker's Coating or now the Spirit Drinker's Coating, epic and BP click? Do you pop any sort of a healing burn? Hand of Piety/Tunare? What is your spell lineup? If your spam lacks self healing or as someone else suggested here.....gross, two spells that would lockout your spell bar for an extended period of time, you'll probably be horizontal more than you're vertical. In regards to their "more spammy" on a paladin than an SK, I believe they meant in order to survive. I always considered SKs the easy mode of knight gameplay. Paladin AE aggro IS fine. I disagree that snap AE aggro is fine. Over time, I generally am tanking 3-6 mobs at a time in an event due to Valiant's position in my spam line.
Playing a well geared and AA'd SK is the easy mode in knight gameplay. My wife played cleric for me for many many years and said there is def a difference in the two knights. She would rather have an SK so she could try to DPS what she could on her cleric. When I box I pull with the sk and load the mob up with dotts and my pet. Move on to my alts and mob is dead usually before I have to go back to the SK and he still had aggro.
They are not gross. I have self healed Aten group mission and close the gate in ToL with it. They are very powerful and I do not notice that long of a lockout. I am curious of your spell line up though or your spam line up. Just open discussion. My preference is for burst healing.
Also I may be biased obviously, but I see more SKs die than Paladins, and I still think we heal better or are easier to heal. It could be they have too many mobs from AE agro or whatever, but your mileage may vary.
So you came on here for advice, didnt listen when people told you to box a healer (especially a shammy instead) and you would be better off, and still brought in a paladin to box with your SK. Your SK is still dying, and your paladin can't tank and now you're asking for more advice. Bro you already didn't listen the first time! You created a bad crew set up, against advice, so just run with it. To the handful of posters that said that his 2-tank crew idea would work, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Yea I could run 6 paladins in a group and make it work, but thats freaking stupid. You guys should steer players that are asking advice in the right direction instead of saying "yea bro, stop tanking on your sk and tank with your paladin instead so the sk can.. dps or something". Thats just bad advice.
