Otherworldly etc too rare?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tegila, Dec 7, 2022.

  1. Marton Augur

    As much as I like the game, I'm at the point where I rather go to a shooting range, hang out with kids, visit with friends then spend endless hours on evolves, or weekly raiding with hopes I can maybe get the item needed since we can't have bricks anymore ...

    I'm seeing this in my guild as well. Aside from folks that run 5 -6 boxes and fly through everything, people just don't seem to be interested anymore.
  2. Zunnoab Augur

    Adding something like the depot takes a significant amount of work. They aren't working off of millions of subscriptions like WoW and FFXIV.

    The normal drops are an upgrade from ToL ores too. I'm not defending the awful trifecta of random drop, item specific, and zero indication of what each makes though.
  3. Dharken Elder

    A partial solution I would agree with, is combining down the number of pieces needed but not going back to universal.
    As an example:

    Augs: 1 ore type.
    Visible: 1 ore type
    Non Vis1: 1 ore type for Idol/Cloak/Shoulders/Mask
    Non Vis2: Rings/Earrings/Charm/Neck.
    Weapons1: 1 ore type for Single slot, Primary/Secondary/Range
    Weapons2: 1 ore type for 2hand.

    If appropriately spread out (lets say 2 ore types per named per zone?) then it would allow each piece to be obtainable across T1/T2/T3. It would still see duplicate rot, but it causes people to rotate out. When the midway patch for the expansion comes out, allow each named to go from 1 drop per kill to 2? In addition, make Aug ore go from specific named to all named at the midway.

    I could even see doing a merchant that converts, make it a bit steep but still possible. 3 ore to 1? 4 to 1? It removes pointless rots, and keeps people going.
    Raptorjesus5 likes this.
  4. Toukan Augur

    There's been ore in every mission chest for awhile now. Why not continue it, especially as we have to wade through all the useless types (for raid geared people) of otherworldly ores hoping for augment making ones.
  5. Raptorjesus5 Augur


    Does it? What about it would take a long time? Honestly seems like something that could be knocked out real quick.
  6. Barraind Grumpy Old Bastage



    My main suggestion for the last couple years was "please revamp the way tradeskills work, re: containercraft", and I'm just so very sorry that the revamp they got was to make them unimaginably worse in every possible way.
  7. DeadRagarr Augur

    Making them more rare than before is OK. It gives T2 a bit more value.

    Making them SLOT SPECIFIC is a terrible idea. Anyone who thinks getting 5 boots in a row as a rare drop in a mission where you burn a boss down in 1 minute is somehow difficult doesn't know what the word difficult means.

    Make them rare, keep ore system, and add them to vendors. Seems simple to me.
    Tucoh likes this.
  8. Gorg00 Augur

    The new system seems like it's more interesting than just mindlessly grinding for a wild card ore item.
  9. Tucoh Augur

    /signed

    I liked how in TBL they were rare enough that it was a pretty good achievement to get geared in T3 group gear. In future expansions they dropped so frequently the real cost was the tradeskill items, the ores were kinda trivial. This system swings things the other way and impacts folks who don't want most drops in missions the most.
  10. Raptorjesus5 Augur

    My biggest complaint about all this is that they take up more bag space.
  11. Tucoh Augur

    Yeah we're all going to end up with a bunch of "well maybe someday" T3 drops in our banks for a few years.
    Raptorjesus5 likes this.
  12. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    As silly and retrograde the slot specific drops are, for the raid drops, let's not forget that half or more of your ores come from the currency vendor, and you still end up with thousands of currency rotting at the end of the year.

    Doesn't change anything except people that disappear for months at a time better deal with not being best in slot every expansion.
  13. Zunnoab Augur

    They definitely had to analyze all of the trade skill functions and likely had to modify a ton of it to implement it. If it functioned like the dragon's horde you might be right, where all it does is check if it's lore or whatever. You can do combines out of the depot though.
  14. Tegila Augur

    Just think it should be one or the other, rarer drops than before or slotspecific (and even then I agree with dharken, shouldn't be literally 25 different drops to compete with but maybe 6-8, bit that's at the OLD droprates i.e. guaranteed in chests, preferably 2 each, and/or the random universal off 120+ mobs like early CoV) but both is horrendous, and that's for people that DO have the time to grind 8-16hrs a day 7days a week, which is a vast minority these days.

    At an assumed good luck dropspread, getting a full set on nameds at a rate of say 1 in 6 nameds, previously would be 6*25(more if need more augs or more weapons) or 150 nameds per toon.

    EDIT: ignore later maths, some is right some isn't, with a spreadsheet the assumed average luck number of nameds at a rate of 1 drop per 6 kills, to get all 25 unique drops needed(approximately 25, in perfect world where all are usable) we need 572.39 nameds. Before it was 150 at the same droprate, for the same number of needs(25@1in6)
    Oh and if need more than 25, even longer. 25 assumes 22 items and 3 augs.

    BEST PART: for a group of six, gotta multiply. How many ppl have time to kill 10nameds EVERY day, just to hopefully with average luck finish before next expansion? Doesn't matter if boxing 6 or doing PUGs, same time investment.




    But now? 1/6(1 drop per 6 mobs) (*1 for first item)*24/25*23/25*22/25*21/25*4/5(20/25)*19/25*18/25*17/25*16/25*3/5(15/25)*14/25*13/25*12/25*11/25*2/5(10/25)*9/25*8/25*7/25*6/25*1/5(5/25)*4/25*3/25*2/25*1/25. The first 5 needed items only...324. 1st drop=6, 2nd 12.48, 3rd 20.16, 4th 22.35, etc. Each drop needed gets exponentially more rare, and at a 1 in 6 name droprate finishing will statistically be nearly impossible, of course with lucky ppl beating the odds but not likely in a YEAR. And the kicker is, this is only if every drop is usable at the start, but that's only for some. Not everyone used a bow or shield for example, so any class that doesn't(say rogue) the first drop is only a 23 if 25 chance in 6 nameds, i.e. 6.48, thus drop 2 is 14.28 nameds average, 3 is 23.76 nameds and so on.

    Even at guaranteed 1 drop per named, it would take 6.75 nameds for 5 usable drops, but now that's 40.5 and ONLY if every drop is usable to start with. The next 5 I exponentially harder, ending with a 4% rate in 6 nameds, or statistically 150 likely. 8% in 6 for 2nd to last or 75(this is NOT cumulative, just for a given drop), 12% in 6 for 3rd to last or 72, etc. And so on (Earlier numbers were cumulative)

    Final drop 4% chance, after 6 nameds, or a 0.66% chance on one. JUST for that one last drop, with average luck, the assumed # of kills to get it would be over 150. First drop 88-100% on 6 or 14.66-16.66% per named(lower chance is rogue example).

    Sorry if I jump between formulas, no paper lol, but point is I don't think anyone thought about the diminishing chances for a useful drop with each useful drop acquired, and that the chance of getting any drop at all is then multiplied by that chance. 25 in 25 for the lucky(100%) in estimated 6 kills... could be more or less. 1 in 25 for the last drop, in 6 kills i.e. 1 in 150 chance. 4/5 for 6th drop in in 6 kills or 4 in 30=2 in 15, 3/5 for 11th in 6 kills or 3 in 30 or 1 in 10, 2/5 for 16th in 6 or 2 in 30 =1 in 15, 1/5 in 6 for 21st or 1 in 30 i.e. 3.33% chance per boss kill after the 20th drop is acquired. 0.66% for drop 25.

    If I didn't lose track in the end, and I might have, a MILLION boss kills nets ONLY a .01746% CHANCE of finishing a set of 25.
  15. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Why is every year there ok with the tradeskill drop rate til bout 3 months then they up it dont they test drop rates in beta? If this is the way tradeskills is gonna be next expasion im not getting it i wanna make stuff not wait months and months because of how rare the stuff is.
  16. Treiln Augur

    Just playing devils advocate here since I don't have NoS yet (don't have 120 haha, almost 116 and a few 115 alts though!).

    But.....wouldn't putting them on a vendor take away from the "make them rare" aspect? Then they're no longer rare, it's just tedious to grind the same missions over and over again for currency build up.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Depends on how much currency is required to purchase them and how long it takes to earn that.
    KushallaFV likes this.
  18. Treiln Augur

    So not to be picky, but tedious is not the same as rare.


    Even if the currency was cut in half (or cost doubled), it doesn’t make it more rare as you’re able to calculate exactly when you’d get them by determining how many missions you’d have to run, and how long missions take.

    Rare involves RNG. Set in stone numbers (I.E. a vendor), takes away that RNG. Time gating/consuming isn’t the same thing as rare
  19. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    And I am not making any comments on how rare or common they should be. Just pointing out that you can have it on a merchant and still be considered rare.
  20. Astefin Journeyman

    They could put each one on mission vendor for like 600, most people will use it to finish out T3 (those that can and do do missions) while allowing them not to grind RNG into the ground. Augs + bag will still be the main mission grind while giving people a way to try and get T3 geared.

    I like to grind and don't immediately have to have T3, but with how rare the pieces are and 1 for each slot makes it a hard-core grind to farm to full T3. A way to help offset T3 grind would be nice.
    Metanis and Xynia like this.