More PvP enabled areas

Face the fact that the only thing that will convince the devs that they should invest anything in a PvP TLP is for all the thousands of players who want it to start on Zek right now and play regularly. There is no argument nor excuse, you can play free on Zek and the devs have stated that they'd consider it if they saw any sort of population increase on Zek. A one time "event" demonstrates nothing on a free to play server so just go on Zek and start playing and stop cluttering the forums with silly arguments.

If you can't make the effort then you get no results

The mythical phrase “Build it and they will come.” has been doing the rounds for a long time. Many new entrepreneurs will hear this soon after they begin.

This is the worst possible business advice and anyone who says otherwise should be ignored.

Once upon a time, you could build it and people would come. Your business would gain popularity through word of mouth.
This was how EQ pretty much worked when it was starting out, along with some of the devs doing the rounds among their former social circles spreading the word.

But those times have changed.

With globalisation and the Internet, it has no place in today's world because people won’t come when you build it. And even if they discover you, or even already know you and do come it doesn’t mean they’re going to stay or give you any money.

The Average Consumer has Too Many Options.

Why should they choose your business/game over every other option available to them?

That’s the question you have to answer.

Your first goal is to make them care, and opening up your doors just isn’t going to cut it anymore.

EQ PvP simply had so much & better competition for players spring up.

Build it & they will come is now a bogus argument & it will now fail every time losing you effort, money & time, precious commodities.

That wasn't hard at all.

Disclaimer: the original content I plagiarised & altered to fit my agenda can be found here:

https://medium.com/swlh/build-it-an...-is-the-worst-advice-in-business-8df34467e370

New ownership seems to be pressuring DPG to do a "special ruleset" every year. They're gonna do PvP next years because if not PvP what else low effort can they do at this point.

I am fairly certain that they will not do anything that requires a great deal of CS, no GM's or Guides at all.

It'd be interesting if there was a way to attach players to the various factions. So you PK for reasons that seemed fine to you at the time but then find out that you've got a death warrant on you from your hometown guards. That could be interesting

Considering the devs have said exactly what is needed for a PvP server to be considered and that has not happened we will not see a PvP server. It isn't like they have run out of options for special rules servers assuming what you say is actually true.

I for one can't wait to experience a pvp tlp. I missed out on the fun back in the day.

It's quite the opposite actually. seems 3-4 people are advocating for something that a small minority of people want. The question of a PvP TLP has been answer multiple times by the Devs that they won't make a PvP TLP because the one PvP server has a low population, which = low demand. A lot of people do not want PvP for two reasons.

1) The PvP community is very toxic (this is generally across all games.) My personal experience with Zek, and those of some RL friends that played on the server a lot more than I did were similar (and even though it's anecdotal evidence, it means it happens) and is a problem that plagues other PvP games as well. are the groups of "ROFL PUGSTOMP." groups of players would gang up on solo players that were lower level and had no chance of winning then proceed to corpse camp them. The only reason to do this is to grief people. From some of the comments like the forced PvP in areas people go to level on PvE servers, it's clear those are the people that are in it just to terrorize people.

2) PvP in EQ is absolutely horrible. There is nothing you can say that will change my mind on this. The classes are severely unbalanced especially in the early game. This is because the game is being balanced around PvE content with PvP being way down on the list. Balancing a game around both is very difficult. An ability that is ok in PvE can turn around and be completely overpowered in PvP. Then you have the issue with gear imbalances between a non-raider at max level vs a raider at max level. So how do you solve that issue? Make PvP gear that you get for doing PvP. Then your back at the problem of using a lot of resources to design new gear, balance classes, More GM's because PvP servers have more conflict, etc. Then PvP gear inflation would eventually be like gear is now where the difference between someone with tier 1 PvP gear vs tier 2 would be noticeable, and the point of PvP isn't beating someone because your gear is better, but because the player themselves is better. This is an issue games like WoW has had for a long time now.

This doesn't help your cause at all. Trying to silence people because they disagree with you falls perfectly in line with my 1st reasoning that PvP communities are filled with toxic individuals. And you threatening to report people for not agreeing with you as "trolling," I am pretty sure goes against the forum rules.

TBH I just oppose this because I saw you supported it.

This is like going to midwest area and asking "is there any interest in building a basketball stadium, basketball brings in a lot of money"
crickets "we want more farm stuff, hunting stuff outdoor stuff"

meanwhile EQ fails to bring in newplayers. Not returning players I'm talking about newplayers.

Because he is a returning player. Just because he is here now doesn't mean hes staying or will come back again.

Only so many times you can do TLP nostalgia. Nostalgia gets old.

Jen and Daybreak don't see interest because their marketing team is baloney.
You don't look at interest in your current community for new things. You already have them as customers. You have to look at the market segment they are in. Gamers, MMORPG players.

Thats who you look at and what their interests are. And theres hardly any PvP players here and interest because they all playing the games that already provide the product. The PvP. They do it better than EQ thats why their PvP communities are strong and EQ is just loyal customers that hard to leave to go play the ones with better product (PvP).

Well that's why no one is asking for a new Zek they want a TLP. With in essence a 1 year old game with much more simple mechanics and abilities to balance. This argument is a strawman.

Bro you are all over the place. This argument is just irrelevant and bad. P99 is a similar but different game and is not a reason that DPG should or should not do anything

You make it sounds like what the devs are doing now is good. Its not this game is dying right now. reskinning old content every year is not bringing in new people or returning people or even keeping people playing the game. Your argument is the devs should keep doing something that has proven over the last 5 years to not be working? Then you make the claim that since there are other games doing what we want EQ to do we should just all go play those games instead? Either you are the worst marketing employee ever or you did not think this through. WoW made that mistake when they said no one would want Classic WoW servers after people saw EQ TLPs and beg for Blizzard to do the same.

EQ had the brilliant idea of launching TLPs and bringing back the content that people loved. Sure PvP in live content is probably beyond saving but not in Classic EQ. Devs made a bunch of changes that negatively affected EQ PvP over the years and killed it but there is no reason to think that without those changes PvP couldn't be good again. A Kunark or Velious locked PvP TLP would give the perfect foundation for a thriving PvP scene and over the years they could add content to that server to keep players interested with significaly less effort than it takes to build a whole expansion that is only going to retain 90% of your player base.

Well cause PvP on live and PvP on a TLP are two completely different experiences. Again no one is asking for Live PvP. No one is asking for another Zek. People want classic PvP

Not sure I understand that equation. Are you saying the subject was brought up in areas that PVP players do not frequent? That more players would want it if it was brought up in a pvp setting?

This was brought up in an interview that many players watched. The other mention was in discord which many players are also in. And on these forums.

Out of the 193 posts on this topic for this post are maybe, 5? who are in favor. The rest are discussing the lack of interest shown in the past

What other place is there to bring up PVP discussions if not in EQ forums, chat channel? They should go to the PVP forums?

You make it sound like the devs doing PVP will save the game. It won't, it will waste resources and accelerate the decline. Revisiting failed server concepts like PVP will not bring in new people or returning people or even keep people playing. Your argument is the devs should try doing something that has proven itself to be worse than the current options years ago. Either you are the worst marketing employee ever or you did not think this through. Other games made this mistake and found that PVP didn't bring new money.

We agree EQ PVP is beyond saving at least, and that devs made a bunch of deliberate changes that killed EQ PVP (good call). A level 60 locked PVP TLP will be a GM free cesspool that will flop to incredibly low pop in record time. The devs could waste huge resources making new level 60 content that won't even retain .1% of their player base, but they obviously won't.

TLPs in general refute that point. Revisiting old concepts is what has kept EQ afloat. In addition you are offer nothing and I am offering a possibility

13 in favor
10 against(all the typically naysayers)
1 Person against because me
1 Neutral

Rent free.

If you are counting me as against then you've counted wrong. It's not my fault that the people who are lobbying for PvP are too lazy to do what's necessary to demonstrate interest. I'm definitely neutral on the subject

You offer the possibility of forgoing the profit of a PVM TLP in favor of whatever random bit of pocket lint revenue may come from a few PVP players trying to reboot EQ PVP. I offer the idea that even if the next PVM TLP is only 90% of the last TLP's revenue, that's better than throwing the slot away on something that the devs and the vast majority of the playerbase don't want to spend time or money on.

They should make a PvP TLP server just so we can have new threads about how it would not have failed if only they had done it this way or that way. The current discussion is just churning the same information.

Of course, doesn't every TLP server have at least one thread about how it failed/is failing?