Most impactful class over the ages

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Kalipto, Oct 18, 2022.

  1. Kalipto Augur

    What class would you say has the capacity to benefit/impact a group the most over all the eras of the game? I think there's an argument for a lot of classes.

    For me it'd probably be paladin. Their ability to tank/heal/lull/cures/splashes and rez comes in so handy. They are sooo lacking in dps though that they definitely cannot "carry" a group through situations where DPS is needed and the group doesn't bring any. Like for fast grind sessions. Even on Undead I dont think they really keep up. Maybe in the late game?

    SK is a big contender their downside is they can't heal others or rez, though mercs make up that difference once you get to Seeds and beyond. SK's are also one of the best PL'ers in the game for "carrying" full groups of newbs.Their dps seems very competitive compared to paladin. Well played/geared/AA'd sk will out dps many normal dps classes that aren't well played/geared/aa'd.

    Ranger is another solid choice. Ability to heal like the Paladin but with great dps. When headshot starts working they can also PL very well. They make decent enough tanks for non-progression content.

    Anyway, what class do you guys think is the strongest carry class in the game over the eras and why?
  2. Xenophon Luclin Server

  3. Tucoh Augur

    Good question.

    For early game and for raids I'd go with cleric. A lot of events would be much, much harder without complete heal chains.

    For groups it's a bit harder because so many groups can be completely gimped without a certain archetype and are then really good if that class joins. If I had to chose I'd pick enchanter just because they're an essential part of many difficult group content over the ages and there isn't a good replacement for an enchanter that can lock down a crowd of mobs that would waste the group if uncontrolled.
  4. FranktheBank Augur

    Bards, without question.
    Waring_McMarrin and Sancus like this.
  5. Vumad Cape Wearer

    You open and close with two different questions. Impact on the group vs a carry class / PL are very different ideas.

    PAL is mentioned as lacking DPS but if RNG makes a mention on HS, which has limited places it works, then PAL slay undead is just as worthy of a mention.

    For PL 1-90, DRU is the best single PL class. SHD with MAG is by far the best PL by a huge margin.
    91-110, RNG is the best PL with headshot.
    110+ a well rounded group is the best PL.

    As for the opening question, there are select situations where you might prefer a PAL over a SK, or a CLR over a DRU, but lets be honest, almost all classes can be easily swapped with some other class that can do the job, but with one exception, the bard, which in all content, a bard is the one class that is always a benefit to the group. There are 3 options for tanks, which doesn't matter. There are 3 options for healers, which doesn't matter. There are a dozen options for DPS, which 4 you have doesn't matter. But there is only 1 bard, and everyone wants one.
    Tanlie likes this.
  6. Kalipto Augur

    Yeah, there are different ways in which a class can impact others. From being pivotal to the groups success, to being able to carry a group that otherwise couldn't complete the content. PL and Carrying players feels pretty similar to me. But I get there is a distinction.

    I'd say bard and chanter are fairly exchangeable. Bard does add more things later in the game that other classes don't (like straight damage to hits/spells). So I see the argument for them.

    Though I've never been blown away by a bard. Sure some are great pullers and that takes skill. Some are played more actively, like charming when possible and mezzing when needed/possible. There are a lot of lazy bards that don't do those things. But even when they do, idk, I don't feel like a bard really carries a group. If the bard was replaced by a chanter or monk (for pulling) I don't think it'd notice much difference.

    3 other people mentioned bard but nobody else said why, so that's not helpful. I'd love to know more about what the bard brings. It's probably a lot of little things that add up and are hard to notice without knowing the class more.
  7. Raltar Augur

    100% the Bard. Easily the best class in the game. They make everyone else better. Can't have too many bards.
  8. Vumad Cape Wearer


    As an ENC, bards and ENC are not interchangeable.

    The thing to keep in mind is that ENC only aDPS casters. Give me a rogue, War and ZER and I'm mostly a bad wizard. SHM only aDPS melee. Bards can change their spell lineups to meet the needs of the group, ENC and SHM can not. Bards are so valuable because group makeup doesn't matter. They have songs for tanks, songs for mana, songs for casters, for melee, for procs, debuffs, pulls, CC, they fit everywhere. They replace no one, while making everyone better. Both ENC and SHM want a BRD in the group, but no one really misses a ENC or SHM when a BRD is in the group.
    Rijacki and code-zero like this.
  9. code-zero Augur

    Definitely Bard.
    Vumad fairly well covered it. Bards can buff AC, debuff mobs, make healers heal even better, tanks tankier and aDPS all classes

    I notice the OP is flying the Berzerker avatar which is strange to me but I'd seen that before. A a berserker in a raid actually asked me why the leaders always put bards in 'his' group. Go figure :p
  10. Kalipto Augur

    Hah, I haven't mained zerker in ages. I jdon't give my avatar much thought here. But yeah if a zerker doesn't know the value of a bard, they're not paying attention.

    Is there content you can't do without a bard? Their resist songs are required on some older raids I know. Or if you don't have them, the raid is way harder.
    code-zero likes this.
  11. code-zero Augur

    Sort of what you said there, you can do a lot of content the hard way or you can do it with a bard. You will see guides where the steps are details with an addendum like, "if you have a bard they can mezz and fade <suchandsuch> so you don't have to...whatever"
    Kalipto likes this.
  12. FYAD Augur

    Cleric. You don't raid without a solid core of clerics, period. You can be missing out completely on any other class but if you have zero clerics show up, you're not raiding.
    Joules_Bianchi likes this.
  13. Ssworidss Journeyman

    If bard is top prize for influence, I feel like shaman has to be second. Across all eras, but especially from Omens onward, shamans and their epics have remained a cornerstone of any and all melee-centric groups, and they were still highly sought prior to that.
    Waitwhat likes this.
  14. The real Sandaormo Augur

    Don't forget these all have to be well played toons. For example you don't get a pass as a Bard for just showing up. Any skilled player can come into a group and make things easier over all.
  15. atchoom Lorekeeper

    shm aura get pets and summoned pets with 75 % haste .
    casters should melee as well ( and they should while casting ), they can crit roar ( and proc a good amount of time ) for 120 K + free dd . so while not being a * real * caster's aDPS it is not that bad.

    a good shm can pull and cc very well , when you can aa ( ae root ) up to 8 targets plus a single root aa , and instant cast cheetah run speed ,you got the tool do do it.

    not counting the heals and some dps too,

    can add aa slow , group hot , always having shm buffs ( it is not only the hp , it add as well some avoidance and str ) .
    Kalipto likes this.
  16. zleski Augur

    It's either a Cleric, Enchanter or Warrior. For the first many years of the game, that was the holy trinity of group makeup. You could have others stand in, like a Druid or Shaman, or a Ranger or SK, but the true holy trinity "go anywhere, do anything" group begins with that trio.

    I'll probably skew to Enchanter only because crowd control, charming, and buffs are very important. The Cleric comes a very close second.
    Joules_Bianchi likes this.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That really hasn't been the case for a long time and bards can do most of what you listed for enchanters as well as provide a good boost to all other classes depending on the song lineup they use.
  18. Treeconix Elder

    That's still melee aDPS though. The sham isn't influencing the caster's casting DPS at all.
    Vumad likes this.
  19. Treiln Augur

    I believe he was just emphasizing the point. And even though it’s melee aDPS, casters should be melee’ing as well.

    All my casters keep their weapons skills maxed for said reasons
  20. Rijacki Just a rare RPer on FV and Oakwynd

    I'm in the bard camp, too.

    Bards are the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none. They have a lot of tools in their toolbox and can shift to suit a lot of different situations. They make others look/do better. They do that, though, at the expensive of their own, isolated, DPS. A bard cannot dps like a dps-only class even more so if they're in a group with a dps-only class 'cause they will be making the dpser do that much better. Bards can even (briefly) off-tank when the tank of a group goes down and needs a rez, keeping the target from beating on the rezzer. Bards even have solo abilities (not as many in the past swarm kiting days) but do a lot better in groups.

    I am only a moderately decent bard (120) and still have more I can do to optimize. However, when looking to bring up another character to 90ish for a group that level locks to do content, bard was one of the classes I chose to do so. I've been 2-boxing (1 computer) with a mage at the same level (mid-40s currently) and even just having a melody running is, for all intents and purposes, a never ending buff vs the limited duration of casted buffs.