Performance & State-Of-The-Game

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Chip, Sep 30, 2022.

  1. Chip New Member

    Firstly, please understand this is an open letter to Daybreak and is not intended to elicit the replies of any other player. But if you want to leave your feedback, cool beans.

    This is my own feedback and opinions that I hope will help Daybreak make some wise decisions to hopefully revitalize the game in a way that is sustainable for them as a company.

    My opinions are not infallible, however if you are to add your own feedback, I ask that it is done so in a manner which is conducive and constructive of game improvement rather than trolling or railing against any change whatsoever. Thanks!

    PERFORMANCE
    Right off the cusp, performance is a big issue. I'm not talking about those running this game on a potato which this game should run on, but we're talking RTX 3080's struggling in the guild lobby with just a few players online with dynamic lighting on and shadows disabled.

    I did some snooping around and noticed there are GPU crash handlers triggering in the code which means that this game is not setup to properly utilize many of the new GPU features such as GPU particles which would virtually eliminate spell cast lag no matter how enmasse. This also tells me that the game hasn't been optimized in a very long time, likely never since I left which is both puzzling and troubling. Why would you release expansions at AAA studio prices without first retroactively optimizing your code? I get it, it's old code. But you've gone through and completely rewrote the engine from the ground up for x64 which is what you have to do, even the physics engine has to be stripped out and replaced with a x64 engine. So why couldn't the engine be adapted for the C# layer optimization that's obviously needed?

    As a developer/project manager/small business owner, this development path makes no sense to me. You're incurring far more cost by kicking this optimization can down the road by compounding the code that needs to be optimized when you reach that critical point - that your code simply ceases to work on new cards.

    Simply speaking there is no excuse for any modern dedicated GPU to fall below 60fps with this game. In fact I would argue that there is no excuse for steam deck falling below 10fps with this game.

    Finally as someone who hosts dedicated servers for gaming communities that run eqemu servers, there is utterly no excuse for server-side lag. No, none. There is also no excuse for 4+ hour downtimes. Why are you not using VM clustering? An server with 1,000 people online in just 3 zones consumes less than 3g of ram and less than 4% of 8 cores dedicated to that guest OS (Windows Server 2016 guest on CentOS9 qemu host). If your modern servers can't run your old code correctly, why not borrow the ideas from the community? It's GPLv3, you CAN use GPLv3 in your case SAAS (but by all means, consult legal counsel). You've embraced this community, removed it as a EULA violation, why not harness it? Work smarter, not harder.

    QOL
    There are many things that I thought would have been added by now that are as simple as they sound that would exponentially improve the quality of life for all players.
    • Spell Fizzle Sound Effects (by default, no setup required)
    • Melee hit and miss Sound Effects (by default, no setup required) [Note: incoming melee effects are great, but outgoing seems to be muted or no longer exists - I remember mobs having hit sound effects, which seems to no longer exist - at least on new mobs)
    • @player for automatic pings/audio
    • Sent Message folder.... Why? Just why?
    • Logging=TRUE by default
    • Some kind of feedback on what your pet is doing (pet status message in the pet window)
    • System messages that display as an overlay to the screen: ex. "You cannot see your target" is display on screen on top of everything so it's not hidden in combat spam.
    • Some kind of list of everything you "know" how to craft
    These are old ideas that many players have suggested in the past an in your influencer and guide program. I've been both.

    MICROTRANSACTION HELL
    I recently returned to this game, and with the help of a few others in my gaming community I've been able to get about 80 people interested in playing EQ. Some have already jumped in and started playing and just to be completely unfiltered: they utterly hate feeling like every aspect of the game that makes it look modern or improve QOL costs more money after dumping $200 on the expansion and paying for 1 year sub. If your goal was to piss off new players and make the game as repugnant as possible to those players, I tip my hat to you because you are gloriously victorious in that mission. Without exception, every new player I have brought into this game in the past 4 weeks has had this number 1 complaint - that it is utterly ridiculous to have to buy "hero's forge", "familiar keys", "teleportation keys", then get extra subs for perks to increase inventory size, and such. On top of that, if you want any decent looking housing item it's another $50-$100. I can only imagine having to mention to them that they'll have to drop another $200 on top of that and the previous $200 and the sub just to advance to the next 5 levels that will come out when they eventually arrive at the current max of 120.

    I'll just leave this in the words of one that came to play and quit the next day which the lack of population seems to indicate that he is not wrong, "I used to love EverQuest but it now feels like a cheap mobile game that is copied from other games with their own RMT P2W system that is designed to do nothing but take your money while providing little to no entertainment".

    I'm honestly not sure what model is worse: Pay to Win, or Pay to Grind.

    Please consider this as Ernest feedback and please consider addressing these issues. God bless.
    Fenthen, Metanis, Mesc and 4 others like this.
  2. ChiiChii Augur

    The 2023 roadmap's biggest highlight, to me, would be their announcement for the graphics engine overhaul. I need an effin "WOW" factor in order to continue donating to this charity cause of a game of which I'm quite fond.
    Fenthen and Jumbur like this.
  3. Jumbur Improved Familiar


    Isn't there NPC's in Sunrise Hills that sells furniture and other housing stuff for plat? :confused:
    Svann2 likes this.
  4. Chip New Member

    I've not messed with the housing stuff much myself, I'll admit. I'm running with what was reported to me by those that I'm trying to convince to play. I did investigate just now, innitially, and while there are a lot of housing items for sale, they are mostly many variations of 3 housing items, bed, chair, and table.

    If you want a stove, grill, sink, counter-top, shelf, dresser, end-tables, etc, that's all $$$.
  5. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I admit I was never into housing myself(I just threw some trophies in a corner...:p ), so I didn't looked that hard at the vendors. I remember I got a bunch of assorted housing stuff with CotF and TDS achievements though.

    I do agree that they should tone down the microtransactions. Especially for older expansion related features like keyrings...
    Most other things in the marketplace have equivalent items that can be gotten in game during normal gameplay though, but it takes some effort.
  6. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Microtransactions in EQ are tame compared to many other "free" games. I don't mind their implementation in EQ. They supplement the FTP folks as well as keep subscription rates from going up (they haven't increased in 17 years).
    code-zero and minimind like this.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    To be fair you really don't need all of that to be able to play at any level in Everquest. If a game is going to have microtransactions I feel it is best to have them on a level that has no impact on game play and is more cosmetic in nature.
    Sancus likes this.
  8. Loup Garou De loop de loop

    You don't have to buy all that housing stuff. This is just unfamiliarity with the options and lack of creativity.

    Not only can you tradeskill and make all that furniture, but housing items are also given as progression rewards. You can earn the ability to purchase campfires, building blocks etc from collection achievements. The NPC in Sunrise sells them cheap. You would not even see these for sale unless you have done that progression.

    You can use swords and shields to make cool legs for tables, racks, words, fencing, boarders, tables, etc and those potions you get from guide events can make a mad scientist table. All those weapon ornaments can go into cheap weapons that you can also use to decorate, one I like are the fork or the flower bouquet

    Its like players saying they have to buy a krono to get all the spells or whatever they need in the game. If players would do a little more research they could find other ways than just buying their way thru the game.
    Rijacki, Hobitses, minimind and 3 others like this.
  9. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]


    There are a lot of housing items unlocked by achievements, or drops from mobs.

    But the discoverability is poor.
    Rijacki, Hobitses and minimind like this.
  10. Loup Garou De loop de loop

    Yes, you really have to search for some of it.

    Housing in EQ was kinda like a red headed step child compared to EQ 2. But some of the creative players out there have exceptional housing they have done and posted pictures of here and on eq resource and other places.

    And I mean, if you just completed an /ach then your going to see the reward listed (there are better ones than this as it only has one item) :

    This is from Island Fragments
    Rewards:
    - Experience (2% in Level 105 --OR-- 10 AAs) --AND-- the following:
    --- Sturdy Rucksack
    --- Extinguished Campfire
    --- Flag to purchase the above items from Halius Goldenthorne in Sunrise Hills
    Hobitses likes this.
  11. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    Awesome new player feedback Chip! EverQuest needs more people like you that are actively trying to recruit others to come to Norrath. They should have a recruit-a-friend program where you can be rewarded for your efforts.

    For my part, I've been trying to get the EQ devs to re-appreciate the new player experience and see Norrath through the eyes of a newbie player. Empathy is a really good trait to have as a game designer. Karana knows some of us have been trying to get Darkpaw to listen, evaluate, and then act on feedback but it's a thankless task and an ongoing uphill battle.

    After about a year of being on the forums, I have come to the conclusion that these forum are more for entertainment purposes than an official conduit where feedback and suggestions are taken seriously by the powers that be. For the most part, devs are ultra rare spawns on the forums. They come out to play every few months when the mood suits them, then they go back inside.

    Just think of these forums like an old age home where the various participants have their favorite rocking chair, their favorite TV shows, their favorite flavor of ice cream and the like. Like the old timers in a bar like Cheers, most people here are pretty much set in their ways and can be protective of the status quo. Once you figure that out, you can relax and enjoy the show.

    It's very easy to get discouraged here, but I hope you'll stay around and keep telling the devs and the old geezers here the truth about what it's like to be a new player. :)
    nezran and Metanis like this.
  12. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Alot of housing stuff is unlocked doing TDS (my favorite expansion) stuff i know i unlocked alot.
  13. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    If this was enabled, then there needs to be an automatic archiving of older log entries when the log file size gets too large.

    I've helped dozens (well, at least a few) players set up GINA (which requires logging be on), and a number of players with bad lagging. Having a 2 GB log file had one player on raids seeing the boss still alive two minutes after it was dead.

    The number one thing I do for people when checking for their lagging complaints is to check the size of their log file. So many have huge log files that are a major cause.
    Hobitses, minimind, Skuz and 2 others like this.
  14. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And to be honest unless you are doing something such as DPS parsing or audio triggers with GINA there isn't a lot of reasons to have logging on in the first place.
    minimind likes this.
  15. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    To be fair, raid instance, server-side lag can cause this as well.
  16. Duder Augur


    I agree with everything you have said other than this. I only want to add that there isn't quite any p2w system, however, from the aspect of newer players it could absolutely be construed as such. The only p2w-ISH feature would be the heroic characters. And even them, you are getting a very very very basic and hardly capable character. The journey to make your character worthy to play in the modern game will be long no matter what level you start at. Heroic-ing will take away probably a month, or a few months of mindless, frustrating soloing play. So, it is and it isnt p2w. In general, the items available in the store are not power items, though, once again, some could be construed as such from a new player's perspective. Such as items with stat benefits. Mounts could certainly be construed as such but the developers nor players see mounts or their speed as any form of gain that contributes to combat play.

    Your views and the views of your friends who have tried it are valid and many things you posted are true and should be taken seriously by the developers. Unfortunately they have a bad track record at maintaining EverQuest in any serious manner. Performance is not a priority of theirs. They will say so, however, their actions speak louder than words. The amount of time they allow to pass between creating, identifying, working on, and implementing fixes is not professional. Often taking longer than single party owned and operated games. Game breaking bugs are also unreasonably low priority. Finally, their Quality Assurance department/policies/approach are abysmal. I do not think they understand what the responsibility of a QA department is, nor do I think they understand the basic premise of what quality assurance even means in regards to providing a service based product like they do. If anything might help this game make worthwhile patches and maintenance changes it would be to contract an outside company that specializes in teaching other companies what Quality Assurance is and how it should function and then design a proper program with the company and work with them to roll out a new and adequate quality assurance program.

    In all, the game developers seem to be completely comfortable with alienating their customer base. I think possibly because they are so detached from the community. It doesn't help that many of their developers have very little experience in actually playing the game. While interacting with the developers, we are all too often met with questions from them that sound like a question from a player who has never even played the game.

    I appreciate your post to the company very much, however, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it falls on deaf ears at the company. You're better sticking to eq e m u or another game than wasting time trying to get EQ proper to fit or work for you. What's more, any attempt or suggestion to better the game will be met by cynicism from the players and even some devs, or outright ignored by the developers. They have no passion to create a quality product anymore and struggle just to keep the game playable, which in many many scenarios, it is anything but that. Thank you for a good post and good luck finding yourself something worth your time. (If you continue to play eq or wait and hope for it to get better you will be sadly and tragically let down by the incredible amount of time you will waste in doing so).
  17. Tappin Augur

    Heroic characters are not P2W - They don't place you anywhere near modern content and have no impact on modern content. The only things are that are P2W are a few potions... and you guess it, Overseers.
    Hobitses, Fenthen and Duder like this.
  18. Duder Augur

    I agree with you, for once ;)

    I only mentioned it in the context of a fresh, never played before customer and wanted to convey to the OP, as much as I could, that nothing from the store is P2W but that I could understand how new players could see it as such.
  19. Iven Antonius Bayle

    *1 Sound effects for mobs can be found in the sounds folder (EverQuest\sounds). I see files from the TDS expansion there, not sure if that got continued. I do not pay much attention to the NPC sounds so they might be just hard to hear which is fine to me, or they are not fully implemented. I only do remember that most mobs do have dying sounds.

    To me it seems that you haven't played much on the live servers with a high level melee class, because then you won't criticize the non-existent melee hit and miss sounds. In one second there can be dozens of hits and misses which does make it impossible to link audio effects onto them.

    Alot mismanagement and definetly much overpriced stuff there from some player's perspectives but the stuff is there for good reasons. The marketplace and especially the Hero's Forge features are not positioned well imo and do lack good management. The CEOs are very resistant to suggestions regarding business stuff. We do need stronger debuff spells for them !

    <Trying to tash Ji Ham !>
    Ji Ham seems to be unaffected by Edict of Tashan.
  20. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    P2W games are designed to lure in players with low cost or no cost at the start of the game, and slowly force the players to spend more and more money in order to gain power or overcome bottlenecks.

    P2W games have content that is purposely designed to be boring and slow unless you pay, in order to skip timesinks and increase player-power.
    Everquest have content that is purposely designed to be boring and slow unless you get social and create groups and/or raids, in order to skip timesinks and increase player-power.

    True P2W games will not let you skip the pay in any reasonable timeframe. Everquest lets you plow through the game if you can socialize.
    All the bottlenecks in Everquest can be overcome(within a non-stupid timeframe) with socializing alone, without any additional fees.


    I agree that the sound-design in Everquest is terrible. It is the only game I know, where the end-user has to bring their own sound-effects in order to get any useful audio-feedback...:(
    Nennius and Metanis like this.