Can we fix the lag instead of just "addressing" it?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Cadira, Aug 28, 2022.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Which is still a major nerf to the pet classes and a single raid like that won't prove that pets are or are not a cause of lag. There are many other factors in a raid that can cause lag.
  2. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    Other posters have asserted removing swarm pets entirely. I have not.

    I have argued for a anti-pet mechanic in a single raid to help detect their effects on lag and even 'test the waters' (public reaction to no swarm pets in raids).

    You can reply to the folks who have asserted the removal of actual swarm pet AA lines and spells.
  3. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    Let's take what was said from the horse's mouth:
    Addressing Latency
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/addressing-latency.282286/

    By Accendo, Daybreak Community Manager

    Everyone should read the entire post.
    Fenthen, Roxas MM, Stymie and 4 others like this.
  4. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Thanks.

    It sounds like they may need to nerf 1-hand weapons, haste, weapon delay, SK's Dark Absorption AA, bard proc songs, etc.

    But it does not obviate pinpointing the degree to which each mechanic contributes to the lag. It may well be what they are doing (comparative analysis) as to explain the "perceived delays" in fixing the lag.

    I do think showing the degree and magnitude (data and analysis) of each mechanic's contribution to lag could help players swallow the "bitter pill" (especially if something like Dark Absorption is nerfed).

    Everyone seems to hate opacity on the forums. When the nerf comes, the inevitable retort is the lack of transparency for the change. "Why did you nerf my SK's Dark Absorption when bard proc song is untouched (or vice versa)?" It would be wise and good practice to show the order and magnitude of specific effects on lag.
  5. Maedhros High King

    That post is exactly why people are asking to remove base pop, disable swarm pets in raid instances, and alter all types of procs to fire significantly less often.
    Obviously adjustments would need to be made to keep things in balance.
    All of those things should make a dent in lag.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  6. Zunnoab Augur

    Reducing the number of roamers and buffing mobs is probably a less extreme idea than removing base pop entirely.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You are suggesting removal of all pets which is a major nerf to some classes. If you want to talk about reducing the numbers that would be one thing but to remove them all is a problem. And as I have said in the past removal of pets from a raid won't prove anything because induvial raids can have big differences in performance depending many different factors. A raid event can be super laggy one night and have almost no lag at all the next night.
    Fenthen likes this.
  8. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    ...
    And when things get muddled, it's called a
    Tweetle beetle muddled puddle paddle battle.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I think they already did this and the base pop just stands in place these days and doesn't roam around.
    Zunnoab likes this.
  10. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    All the focus is on instanced raid environments, but how do you extend those solutions to open-world content? The game still has all sorts of lag that pops up during routine gameplay, outside of raids.
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  11. kizant Augur

    There's no reason to get rid of swarm pets but it does make sense to consider making some adjustments to how they work. I would think that's obvious to most people. Just creating and adding dozens of them to the game in a short period of time seems to cause problems... But besides that and tracking moving objects, etc they do contribute a large number of melee attempts.

    Here's what Shei looks like for our raid showing the number of attacks/attempts per second. And I noticed that none of our bards were using any swarm pets so this could be a decent amount higher if we weren't taking any attempts to limit them..

    [IMG]

    If I remove all swarm pets from our log the chart gets cut down to this. The peak goes from 850 to around 550. That's quite a big difference and sure to have some impact.

    [IMG]
  12. Orienn TreeHugger

    Ya some raid events are super lagged out for me one night and then the next night it's smooth sailing. Normally ME is super laggy for me, last night it was like perfect. Then we wiped and the 2nd attempt it was terrible I could barely move. Swarm Commander was perfect but Zelniak was super lagged, and it was a miracle that AHR was perfect too and generally that's the event I get a lot of lag on, I think the golems were lagging though.
  13. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    CC: Waring

    I would love to see a future raid with an anti-pet mechanic (zonewide DT aura affecting pets) to test out the theory in game. Put it in the next expansion's first Tier 1 raid (so instance loads are broadly distributed and affected across all servers without the anti-pet mechanic affecting the entire expansion) - that's it.

    Eliminating pets (as opposed to frontloading damage - i.e. increasing hit damage and delay) in the experimental raid would seem to be a better control (or gold standard). If eliminating pets shows a noticeable reduction in lag, then they can later test for optimal hit frequency.
  14. Tucoh Augur


    Hm, I like my reply to that thread back in April better than my post in this thread.

    This is how I feel whenever the talk about latency comes up.

  15. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Please explain how a single raid would be able to determine if pets are the cause of raid lag when it has been mentioned time and time again that raid lag can vary a lot on an induvial raid from night to night or instance to instance. This is guaranteed to nerf classes that depend on pet damage and there is no reason to think that it will prove what you want it to prove.
    Sancus, Oakenblade and Skrab like this.
  16. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Removing 90% of pets and procs is like saying you need to amputate your entire arm because you have skin cancer in situ on it.

    Procs will include SK's Dark Absorption AA and Bard's Arcane/Spite song lines. Synergy effects may also offend.

    I'd prefer to cut along the necessary margins only.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    You are the one who keeps saying remove all pets and I am the one saying that is a bad idea. I never said anything about reducing the numbers and redoing them to account for smaller numbers.
  18. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    I think you are confusing me with Tucoh.
  19. Tucoh Augur

    Is dark Absorption a proc? You know what, doesn't matter, cut it too.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur



    How am I confusing you with anyone when I can directly quote you suggesting to eliminate pets. You are the one making the suggesting I am objecting to.
    Kaenneth likes this.