[Suggestion] Item Vendors — PoK

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Skrab, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    That is great but I don't see a single piece of low level trio gear being sold in the bazaar on Luclin. In order for that to be useful they have to have an easy way to find it. Also I am seeing Simple Defiant (level 5) ranging in price from 15P to 15,000P and crude defiant (level 10) ranging in price from 5P to 3500P with a limited selection available. I see no reason to not let players buy a complete set of low level gear instead of having to depend on other players making/looting something of low value and putting it for sale in the bazaar. Is there really much incentive for a player to stock low profit, low sell volume items on their traders?
  2. Alnitak Augur

    Yes, Underfoot diamonds are not farmable at level 10. Mob-farmable, that is. Extruded Underfoot Diamonds are merchant-farmable though. Just run around PoK and Crescent Reach and check the merchants - plenty to find, usually, and merchants sell it under 2pp ea. It takes effort though, unlike just buying stuff from a merchant.
    Just a reminder - Underfoot augs were made level-1 useable back in Underfoot expansion as a way to help lowbies, those make AWESOME level 1 gear, much better than anything else. And those are tradeable. And yet people still demand more easy-to-get merchant-bought gear. And not in addition to Underfoot jewelry, but instead of that.
    Really, people want to add merchants, which sell farmable gear, which is much worse than gear already in the game. All because it's easier than just apply a little bit of effort of learning their options and searching for needed items.
    Over the course of years I've seen people asking for merchants selling gear, tradeskill items, currency etc. Over and over again. Instead of playing EQ they just demand to buy the EQ progression (in all senses). Sure they can do it, and DPG sometimes obliges. Nothing I can do about that.

    But I can point to some other choices.
    Jumbur likes this.
  3. Alnitak Augur

    As mentioned above, trio electrum jewelry has trivial 78'ish, costs 2 pp to make and JC freebie quest can level up JC to 54. Just make it, don't search the bazaar.

    And why bazaar prices for Defiant gear is so rediculously high - ask those sellers.
    I do my part - whenever I kill in lower level zones I vacuum-up all the defiant gear and later sell it at bazaar starting from 5-25 pp for Simple and Rough and upward 350-450pp for Elaborate and Elegant. Sometimes a dozen various items at a tme. I don't know why others do not do that.

    Why I do that - to help lowbies and simply monetize my vacuuming efforts, for me a piece of Defiant gear is like a gem - although I have to sell it at bazaar, not merchant-dump.
    Jumbur likes this.
  4. Velisaris_MS Augur

    I think the point that the OP is trying to make with the suggestion of putting the other defiant gear on the vendors is to provide a smoother learning curve for new players...not players leveling up their 27th toon for one of their box crews.

    All of the suggestions in opposition to the idea, such as just buying player-made jewelry or dumpster diving for materials, require a certain amount of knowledge of the game that new players are not going to have. And on live servers, they're not likely to get much help in those early levels. Sure, there are some old farts that do help out newbies here and there, and that's great. But relying on the kindness of older players to enjoy the game shouldn't be the market strategy to attract new players. That's Daybreak's responsibility, not the players.

    Putting the things that folks like most of us in this thread take for granted (because we all likely have around 20+ years of experience) is a way to help new players learn the game. They don't have to go searching on spoiler sites in the early part of teh game for the knowledge you and I take for granted. They finish the tutorial...and then what? They're basically on their own at that point.

    Having gear vendors (just like with the PoK spell vendors) with all they require for the first 80 or so levels would greatly help them out. They wouldn't have to worry about gear and spells and could focus solely on learning the game and having fun. By the time they reach the point where PoK vendors no longer sell what they need, they will probably have enough knowledge of the game not to need them anymore. But for a new player starting out, having things like defiant gear on merchants would likely mean the different between continuing to play the game and giving up on it.

    And no, the suggestion of "just go play on a TLP server" is not a solution. Those are novelty servers and don't represent the actual game of EQ that everyone else plays.
    Skuz, Waring_McMarrin and Skrab like this.
  5. Alnitak Augur

    There is an answer in the game already. Hero Journey questline.
    In Gloomindeep Mines a newbie can get all the armor pieces from mobs or by doing into quests (like spider silks can be traded in for all the armor pieces).
    And once out of Tutorial at, say, level 10 any newbie can just follow the suggested questline and start doing PoK armor quests and follow the Hero Journey. It's designed to be level-appropriate and easy. I did some of that myself, it's fun and rewarding.
    And Hero Journey culminated in SoD with Paragon's gear which is way better than anything wearable at that level. Again, I did some of that myself while leveling up. Fun, rewarding and doable.
    Literally, all gear slots can be filled up with very good gear when it's useful.Just play EQ and learn how to be better in EQ.
    But great many people just want all that bought from a merchant in PoK.
    In our small guild there were several newcomers to EQ who joined, got twinked up by guildies, eventually leveled up to start raiding current era raids and ... got bored and quit EQ.
    They were actually given all the advices, gear, help and assist they needed, but they have not learned their own ways in EQ. They came, they saw, they took and they departed. Just quit out of boredom.
    No bad intention, no ill will. Just boredom, because they were given all the success in the game, not earned it.

    Do you really think that making some gear more readily available to those people who don't even bother to learn what's already available in EQ will somehow help the population?
    Or making easier ways to twink alts for those who don't want to even remember how to ?

    To my ears, someone whining "I don't want to spend my time and effort on getting something in EQ by actually playing it, just gimme that on a merchant in PoK" is actual poison. But again, it's not my decision to make. DPG will do whatever they want, I am just mumbling here.
  6. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    Yes.


    This attitude kills a game.

    Tradeskill gear that's cheaper and better than vendor gear is a very good reward for learning more about the game. However you need different layers, a surface level of vendor bought gear and deeper layers of finding better gear through dangerous adventures or mastering a craft. They both serve a purpose.
    Stymie, Skuz and Tatanka like this.
  7. Gnomeland Augur


    It's expensive because, like in World of Warcraft, there are people who buy up all the supply and then turn around and sell it for more. This can be done with any limited supply drop, and is especially powerful for low level equipment because of high demand.
  8. Gnomeland Augur

    As far as this general topic goes, I've spent hundreds of hours bringing characters up with only their own capabilities - no help from other characters what so ever. This is my conclusion:

    1. Hero's Journey is a great source of equipment until you get to level 70 or so. Then only certain classes can actually finish Hero's Journey Achievements. But this isn't anything new - past 70 only certain classes can molo.

    2. There are three bottle necks in early Hero's Journey. The trade skill block in Goru'Kar Mesa, which affects a few pieces there but can be over come if you spend the time and effort. The Queen block in Stonehive, which can be over come if you go at a higher level. Then another Queen block in Blackfeather Roost, which is a hard block because by the time you can do it, the equipment is useless, but you can get around it by just skipping those pieces.

    3. Vendor equipment is a nice idea but wouldn't solve the basic issue which is NOT <level 70. It is >level 70, actually closer to level 80. That's when half the classes simply can't advance any more without boxes or groups, and even many of those that can, struggle unless they're a pet class because they lack the proper equipment. An equipment vendor could help for >level 70, less so for <70. For <70, it's actually how boring the journey is after you've been through it 100 times that makes people ask for merchants.

    But it'd be even better if more options were just given to those classes that can't molo.
    Stymie, Bobbybick, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And you are missing the point, if the new players don't know about all those "trivial" items to make they are not exactly trivial. Also the point of adding them to the vendor is to make it so that the overpricing in the bazaar doesn't matter.

    Sure there are things they can get that would be better but that also requires them to know about those items and tradeskills before they can do them. The game isn't exactly good about that.
    Skuz likes this.
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Given how long ago Defiant was remotely useful this is a very small change with a big benefit for a few players, nobody should pay the stupid prices for it most servers have.

    I used to have a huge stockpile of the stuff I would hand out to newbies & alts of guildies that I had accumulated from levelling an army of alt characters because the prices people asked on the Bazaar were so ridiculous, and the older a server gets the stupider the prices for it got due to it becoming more scarce (same thing happens with all droppable group-level loot)

    I would actually say that the game needs to go a few steps further than just defiant too, making droppable gear vendor purchasable for reasonable prices after a certain number of expansions pass.

    Kinda like the Autogrant AA curve maybe, gear from 4 expansions ago that was group drops can go on vendors, at least the basic stuff, maybe have a group drop currency that can be used for the vendors so if you are struggling to find a particular slot (named being camped hard for something else it drops maybe) you can use the currency for it.
    Stymie and Waring_McMarrin like this.
  11. Gnomeland Augur

    There is a down side to putting all equipment on merchants, which is that it removes all goals from the game, other than experience and money farming. This basically makes everyone go to the same zones to maximize money farming. All other content goes to waste.

    This is what Hero's Journey was supposed to solve for. Give players goals to work towards. Give them a feeling of accomplishment when they finally finish that achievement. It's certainly been that way for me when I take a new character through the journey.

    Merchant solution is better for existing players making new characters, than actual new players or returning players. A much better solution is to fix Hero's Journey, but I guess developers would rather spend the time on making new progression servers because it brings in more players.
  12. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Not really.

    Defiant gear served a purpose, that being as part of a broader "catch up" system in conjunction with other changes introduced at the time, OOC Regen, Faster AA gain at low AA count - later surpassed by the auto-grant system etc. which predated the "Heroic Upgrade" & the modern TLP servers.

    It also doesn't go beyond Level 70-75 and at that point is becoming a very poor option anyway, right at the time players start to feel Mercs are becoming very weak too so Moloing to catch up becomes significantly harder & slower.

    Sure the Heroic 85 is there right now, likely to be replaced by the heroic 100, but for players not wanting to blow cash on skipping levels or who would like to play through them conventionally they are in for a struggle.

    I would also argue that gear on vendors actually opens up more zones to explore, the "money zones" are not common knowledge among newbies and they can farm plat in pretty much any place for their next set of gear so they actually have more options when they aren't forced into hunting specific drops from specific places.
    Stymie, Waring_McMarrin and Jumbur like this.
  13. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    If I was to re-itemize EQ, each era/expansion should have 4 tiers of items.
    Tier1 drops from trash-mobs, and is not rare, and can be acquired even molo...
    Tier2 is crafted with mats from trashmobs.
    Tier3 drops from nameds.
    Tier4 is quested/achievement.
    (Raid gear is another subject...)

    Defiant items are the "tier1" for the level 10-70 range. I don't have any problem with low-level tier1 items being easy, such as buying it from vendors. They could spread those vendors out all over the game, in order to encourage travelling and exploring, they shouldn't be in PoK(each vendor can tell you where to find the next vendor...).

    HoT had Thulian armor, VoA had drops from trashmobs too, and so did RoF. After those expansions, you had to rely on nameds/missions and crafted gear.
    Gearing up in later expansions is too hard imo, newer expansions requires named drops even for crafted items...You are too limited without a group, when it comes to gearing up...:(
    Waring_McMarrin and Skuz like this.
  14. Velisaris_MS Augur

    What it does is make the early game much easier for new players and puts a dent in the price gougers in the bazaar selling Crude Defiant pieces for 10-20k (yes, that's a thing). If you're one of those traders doing that, I can see how this idea would be a downside for you.

    Putting cheap newbie gear (which will likely be abandoned long before they reach the top tier of that gear anyway) on merchants breaks absolutely nothing in the game and helps those new to the game. This whole "I had it rough so YOU have to have it rough" attitude toward the game is just selfish nonsense.
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  15. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Add the defiant merchants but require that all the level-appropriate Franklin Teek for the month be completed to access the vendor, maybe?
  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    I started to look into this on my little Mage, I rolled up on a fresh server and the Trillion Cut Underfoot Diamond is a 436 Trivial Combine and not available in early level content. It's a good suggestion once you're established. I'll definitely make it for my future lowbies that I don't powerlevel.
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    I should have looked at this closer the first time I replied but there is no way that first ring only costs 4P to make as it has an aug that requires drops from Underfoot and a combine with a trivial of 436.

    http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=33196&menustr=035000000000

    Even the other two augs are not going to be simple for a new player to make as they both have a trivial over 100.

    http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=28818&menustr=035000000000

    http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=28801&menustr=035000000000
  18. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    You can outfit a new character FREE. And the game tells you how. Just follow "The Hero's Journey". The sub category of "progression, advancement and special" all reward level appropriate gear.

    You can also supplement this with Hot Zone gear starting at level 20. And each of those hot zones has a special hot zone aug.

    There are many quests to obtain jewelry at lower levels such as [IMG] Farmer Joen's Entrapment Ring

    All this is fairly easy for a new player to the game. But if you just joined the game and have no patience to earn armor or you want to be the the most buffed up level 2 whatever, then yes, your going to pay. Be it from an NPC or a baz trader.
  19. Arkanny Augur

    if anything defiant gear should be removed altogether. it's too good for the earlier part of the game for one, and it completely removes any incentive for true newbies to adventure and experience the older content for its rewards.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    And just hope they go to the right place to get something they can use? Itemization in older expansions is pretty bad, there is a reason why they later added defiant to the game.
    Skrab likes this.