off hand weaps and ratio vs highest base damage.

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by strongbus, Jul 18, 2022.

  1. strongbus Augur

    i know for melee dw that ratio is king for primary. but how much dose ratio play for off hand?

    atm i have both h2h raid weapons from TOL but haven't won a ore yet to make the t2 mnk/bst 1hb as well as my guild has not beating the raid to unlock the t1 1hb.

    i have the t2 h2h in primary as its the best ratio. is going the best ratio for off hand the way to go as well as atm the t1 h2h is the second best i can get. or would having one of other 1hb that bst can use that have higher base damage and a higher delay effect it in anyway?
  2. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Best ratio.
    Dre. likes this.
  3. Moak The Most High

    I question the proposition of dual wield being king for primary.
  4. Alnitak Augur

    Question no longer - it is.
    Dual wielding raid T2+T1 h2h weapons is not the very highest dps combo, but it is the best choice.
    Many-many times lifetap proc of h2h weapons saved my butt on raids by healing me off those nasty AE's and reposts.
    And in the group (when my BST is the main tank) it's very helpful to self-heal by lifetap instead of relying on lazy or slow healer mercenary. Ask any SK how much they like their lifetaps. BSTs should use that way just as well.
    And when Bloodlust is running your h2h combo makes the beastlord immortal.
  5. Moak The Most High

    Yeah but you get better dps using damage procs than those trash heal procs. I get more dps out of the Anniversary raid drop 2hb than raid TS hone handers on my Beast
  6. Alnitak Augur

    Did I understand you correctly:
    When a beastlord uses the absolute best weapon in the game the dps is the highest?
    I am a little bit confused here.
  7. strongbus Augur

    i have the anniversary 2hb as well. i did a bunch of 1 hour pars a while back and while i don't have the log files anymore still have the emails when i sent my RL some info on the test results

    now this was just in GGH with just auto attack on and not casting any spells/disc just just to test weapon/proc damage between the 2.

    2hb 1 hour pars avg

    153,615,399 million damage total 100%
    100,328,936 million damage 2hb 65.31%
    31,126,533 million damage kick 20.26%
    19,363,187 million damage proc 12.6%
    2,796.723 million damage strikes 1.82%

    h2h 1 hour pars avg

    181,903,908 million damage total 100%
    96,414,258 million damage h2h 53%
    52,867,637 million damage proc 29.06%
    29,881,748 million damage kicks 16.43%
    2,740,265 million damage strikes 1.51%
  8. Szilent Augur

    y'all are remarkably fixated on h2h as the dual wielding option. Vampiric Draw heals, if it crits, for 26k, since it's a modern resource tap not an old-style Lifetap that can double crit. That can be clutch, I guess(?), but it's not likely to fill up a modern hp pool between raid AEs, outside the duration of Bloodlust. Someone above mentioned SKs - SKs are casting life taps, not proccing Vampiric Draw. SK life taps regularly heal the SK for many hundreds of thousands (they can surpass a million, even) and can be chain cast every 2sec instead of just hoping for lucky procs.

    Meanwhile, 1hb has substantially higher base damage proc, 5200 instead of 3640, and plain dps is open ended in value. Some more is always good.
    Cadira likes this.
  9. strongbus Augur

    as i stated wish i had access to the mnk/bst one lol t1 not unlocked and havn't won a brick yet on raid to make it lol
  10. Svann2 The Magnificent

    On the subject of damage vs vamp proc I say Why not Both? My goal is to have a pair of damage procs, and a pair of vampire procs and swap when I need the heals (such as when healer dies).
  11. Disapointed Lorekeeper

    Gelid is a monster!

    Anyone who is just blatantly using 2hb or 1H's 100% of the time is 100% failing to maximize their DPS potential.

    Back to the OP: TS 1hers even with 1 being vampiric should out DPS the TS 1hb + dropped 1HB, since Bloodlust should be used with the 2her out, and the main reason you swap to the 1hers is to get gelid to fire.since it alone is one of the strongest innate procs in the game (unless you were upgrading a group weapon I would never use the war/brd/bst/rng/rog raid weapons)

    I would stick with the 3 best versions you can get of the following:
    317/18 = TS Katar / 1HB
    308/18 Dropped Katar / 1HB
    One of the 3 2HBs (dropped/ts/anni)
  12. strongbus Augur

    question besides blood what other times you use 2hb? i have read many places that use it when doing bard/sham epic/vind and 1 or 2 others but when i do my own self pars test(all always over 1-2 hours long) i still see dw coming out ahead or bout the same as the 2hd

    and atm i have the anni 2hb and t1/t2 katars i use.
  13. Szilent Augur

    trust that result. and try out clubs instead of katars.
  14. Razorfall Augur

    So the extra proc damage on the dropped 1HB is worth the loss on the ratio on the H2H? Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of getting the ore AND drop since my bst is an alt and ores aren't going to alts
  15. Szilent Augur

    what? they are the exact same ratio. precisely the same ratio. the numbers are identical.
  16. Alnitak Augur

    Perhaps he meant the "loss on the ratio" when you go from TS 1HB + TS h2h to TS 1HB + T1 1HB.
  17. Razorfall Augur

    Oops. Yes, this
  18. Iribabh Augur

    While I've not actually tested T1 1HB vs T2 H2H it is something that I've discussed at length with a couple other beastlords and it's the general consensus among us that it's better to keep the h2h in offhand. Difference is -9 base damage, +1560 proc damage, -lifeleech.

    Doing some napkin math here using our Shei run. Shei Vinitras in 427s, 17.79B Damage @41.67M, 13. Iribabh +Pets = 564.57M@1.32M in 427s {7}

    On that run I have 104 procs of Vampiric Draw. Average damage on my VoS procs 29,752. Average damage VD proc 22,867. Diff 6885 / hit avg, figure you should gain around 716,040 damage or so on proc. Combined VoS and VD damage from the event is 7,822,913. 716040 / 7822913 = approx 9% increase in proc damage and about a 1,677 dps increase.

    Now that we have a base damage difference sorted out, let's look at the other benefit of the katar in offhand - healing. That same fight I had 321,679 healing from VD across 19 procs. The rest was all just pure overheal, 85 procs worth. Average heal on it 16,930k. Are these 17k chips saving my life? I don't know, maybe, last week we started with too many on the platform and blasted ourselves for 70% 2-3x before someone jumped down so maybe? I'm certain that if I look at our FTG run with the number of adds I tanked, that healing number is going to be waaay more significant (argument made you can bandolier to it if you need it, if you are fast enough).

    Back on topic - so now we have it that swapping to the T1 1HB from the T2 H2H is about a 1.6k dps increase for the proc damage, but costs you moderately significant source of personal passive self sustain and doesn't account for dps loss from melee due to the -9 base damage loss. For me, I just don't see it being worth it. At best after the melee wash it's going to be maybe? 500dps if it's not an out-and-out loss.

    I have considered testing it now that I'm bricked out though and don't need currency for anything else other than luck combines on a piece or two. Remind me in a couple weeks Szilent and I'll buy one to test if one hasn't dropped by then and rotted.

    EDIT: Because I had it opened and mentioned above. FTG I had 264 VD procs, avg 25k. Just shy of 492k healing from VD procs on 26 hits, the rest overheal. I suspect that the number of procs which are pure overheal speak more heavily to our raids healing efficacy than their being purely "wasted". Still valuable healing.
  19. Iribabh Augur

    Ran some parsing. 30min parses so still room for variance. Trophy in main hand. Standard raid buffs. Growl + Bestial Fierceness on because there's never a time I wouldn't have those buffs in combat. Yes I should've clicked off buffs, or at least Janns and took my belt off and blah blah. Breakout is there because I didn't.

    T2 H2H - Combat Dummy Geza in 1811s, 73.64M Damage @40.66K, 1. Iribabh = 63.94M@35.58K in 1797s
    [IMG]
    T1 1HB - Combat Dummy Geza in 1802s, 67.55M Damage @37.49K, 1. Iribabh = 62.91M@34.91K in 1802s
    [IMG]

    Result: Overall 600dps loss from lost melee damage. About 1k dps from melee difference in swapping to 1HB. Gained 400 dps in proc damage using 1HB.

    Again - I know that for more conclusive testing several hour parses should be run. I have no reason to do them. This is conclusive enough for me. It's about the same, except I lose the healing I'd get from the katar and a small bit of AC HME too. Katar wins.

    EDIT: Apparently I can't just copy/paste snips into here. H2H 4,448 hits @27,139dps. 1hb 4482 hits @26,130dps. 105 Vamp Draw procs @725 dps. 110 VoS procs @1,138 dps.

    EDIT2: I'm dumb. Images inserted.

    EDIT3: Sympathetic procs will obviously start to skew the numbers further in favor of 1hb in offhand due to increased proc damage. I'm willing to bet that it goes as far as to make my napkin math from the post above accurate and the procs become 1500 positive dps. If that is true, then 1hb technically becomes better by 500 dps. I'd say that when we're measuring beastlord dps in the million range, 500dps gained at the loss of a potentially significant source of self sustain is still not worth it. The T2 H2H in offhand is the way to go over T1 1HB.
  20. Zunar Augur

    That's what I use as well.
    Anni 2hb with ToL 2h damage+DD proc aug, for when bloodlusting.
    TS 1hb with ToL 1h damage+DD proc aug in primary and in offhand TS hth with anniversary damage+sympathetic DD proc for when not bloodlusting.