Constructive criticism regarding recent ban waves.

We really need a whitelist of allowed software.

EQ is a very, very old game. Over the years, people have created numerous tools to make playing it more enjoyable. EQ is the only MMO where playing multiple characters at once is the preferred way to play by a very large portion of the player base, possibly even the majority.

The facts are that the landscape has evolved rapidly and it is not clear what is and isn't allowable.

Parsec is an amazing low latency software that lets you stream/control PCs remotely over LAN. Is this allowed?

Multiplicity allows you to broadcast keypresses to other PCs. Is this allowed?

What about GINA? Gamparse? What about macaroni which people have used on live for two decades and have ultimately been allowed to do so?

The time has come to take a more modern approach to moderating what people can do in EQ. "Third party software" is a term that is utterly meaningless in the context of EQ.

Help us help you. Banning people seemingly at random is not the answer.

I'm gonna take a wild guess the one in your post that is censored if you type the name isn't allowed.

What Constitutes as Cheating?

This question has obviously been a hot topic lately with many wondering just what does constitute as cheating. Elaborating on our Knowledge Base article here, let's talk about third party cheating software. We do not allow the use of any third party programs that modify the game client or its memory data. Additionally, programs that automate movement or actions in the game are not allowed. Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed. Using these types of programs will result in a suspension or a ban. Know that this is not a complete list of functionalities that can cause actions to be taken against your account and other accounts associated with it.

Regarding other activities that constitute as cheating, modifications of your computer or OS environment in an attempt to falsify or circumvent anti-cheat detection is not permitted. Any attempts to circumvent the detection will cause actions to be taken against the account and possibly other accounts associated with it. Furthermore, exploitation of bugs or game mechanics to gain a notably unfair advantage or that largely disrupt the game, its economy, or stability of the game is not permitted.

When it comes to reporting possible cheaters, know that our investigation process is a lengthy one. We prioritize gathering information and compiling evidence before suspensions and bans are levied. So, please do keep sending in reports to Customer Service, and rest assured, your report will be taken seriously.

Lastly, we will not publicly list specific names of approved third-party programs and software as we cannot guarantee that those programs will remain approved in the future.

Thank you for being a member of our community and for taking the time to read this.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/

I S B is censored and is "allowed"

There gonna be a swarm of people, the usual suspects, that come in and focus on extremes such as; "of course gina is okay, because [reasons]" and "of course M Q is not okay you cheating scum"

These aren't really the discussion topics. Its the area between. Is Multiplicity allowed? If it is, are some features (like the toggle input broadcasting) not allowed? Are you allowed to VPN to obey truebox rules, but not get actually trueboxed (if you don't know, truebox code is as such that is you press the same key across multiple clients on the same IP, you get removed from the game. This includes people that ARE LEGALLY BOXING with multiple laptops).

There is suspicion that the recent banwave was targeting kvm software (Input Director, Multiplicity, etc) which in themselves are pretty benign, usually used for moving your mouse from your main PC to a laptop.

There is really a discussion to be had here, because it's not really a herculean task to say "input broadcasting is not allowed" or whatever their line in the sand is.

Exactly. There is also merit to be had in the discussion that even the more invasive software that is ubiquitous on live servers is seldom if ever punished.

Boxing is, quite simply, the preferred way the majority of the playerbase likes to play EQ. It is not anywhere near as fun to play a single box, the game is too simple. As expansions progress it is also significantly harder to find groups.

The playing field has been as it is for years. There is no reason to start ruining a good thing.

Disclaimer: My account was one of the recently suspended. All I got told was that it was for "third party software" and that they are "confident in their findings". This is useless information to me. How do you prevent recidivism when people don't even know what they're getting suspended for? Is the goal even to prevent recidivism?

I don't believe this is true, on either count. The rules are exactly the same on Live servers as they are on TLPs. Suspensions do occur on Live servers; you just don't see threads about them in the TLP forum. The majority of Live players do box, at least when they're not raiding, but in my experience Live players tend to be much more proficient at managing their secondary windows than non-Live players on a TLP, without the need to use forbidden software. Many simply alt-tab as necessary. Quite a few "truebox", i.e. use more than one PC and monitor, even though there is no requirement for it. Some are cheating, yes, but the notion that use of such software is universally accepted and has been so for years is, well... I don't agree.

The heart of true box was supposed to be you reaching over and hitting a key on a laptop to do actions on a second character.Anything that circumvents that is a violation of the intent of true box. Then there are all the other obvious cheating and circumvent items. Everything you listed can be used to cheat or automate in some way or form.

As to people boxing, I hate boxing. I prefer not too. I do have a box but i'd much rather just play solo with other people.

I don't mind people boxing but the botting is the real problem. what do I care if someone is legit running multiple characters. But I DO care when its 1 guy running 3 or 4 mages or whatever and has been there for days and days which we all know if you are human you need sleep....unless you're botting.. I actually enjoyed Aradune the most cuz it at least kept SOME people at bay not utterly disregarding the rules. Yalinak is a joke. I see Botters not BOXERS everywhere there is a good krono items available.

The funny thing is go look after their "ban waves" and all the botters are still going strong in all the major camps. Same naked mages farming 24/7 & bot groups in chardok. An automated system isn't the way. We need GMs to do their jobs and go police the game.

I watched GM Doex appear on some naked mages who farm the same spot all day and just AFK check them instead of banning them and then he left, LOL. Its obvious the naked toons who have been in the same spot for days are bots. Of course they will respond to a simple AFK Check message I'm sure that's extremely easy for them to automate. Darkpaw/GM's need to stop being lazy with this automated process that clearly isnt working and police the game or sell it off to someone else who can do what needs to be done.

Sad times in EQ when there are more bot groups than real groups in most major zones on the newest TLP.

Blahblahblah....

I'm sorry but we see this sort of thing all the time <accused bots> are running rampant in <location> and the GM's do nothing!!!!

I suspect that the GM's are doing something regularly but since they won't do what you want when you want them too you accuse them of corruption.

As for software, I suspect from some of the conversations I've heard not just from TLP but Live that map hax are the focus of recent suspensions and that's fine by me.

Yeah cuz people knowing the map of a 20 year old game is of vital importance, not the rampant botting and other sort of cheating happening and actually effecting Everquest. What a joke.

Well, if a certain mapping program was the target of this wave then it was woefully ineffective, because there are still people AFK at the entrance of VP watching dragon spawns as always.

If the devs just came on the forums and said "hey, you were suspended for using xxx program, stop or get perma banned" that'd be dope.

Instead we have to play a guessing game.

And as regards to the botters, I can walk into Droga at 4am and record a video of AFK bots with the same names farming things for literal weeks at a time. So if the target was botting, that was also ineffective.

Most of the people I know (myself included) who were hit by suspensions don't really do a whole lot except raid. I guess next server I should stop raiding and roll an automated crew of mages if I don't want to get suspended, right? (This is a joke, don't ban me pls)

Glad to see DPG continuing to take action against cheating. Hopefully, despite the inevitable outcry from players who got hit, there are few or no false positives.

It's disappointing that DPG holds to their strategy of "minimum information, maximum confusion" regarding reasons for banning. Maybe as the number of people who are cheating on a regular basis drops they will re-evaluate. I've never been suspended/warned, but as someone who uses third-party applications that fit within DPG's description of cheat programs it's discomforting to have such a close to my 22 year old characters and know I could be suspended without being "informed of the nature and cause of the accusation" and have zero recourse to find out what I can and can't use.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/

Accendo said: ↑
“We do not allow the use of any third party programs that modify the game client or its memory data. Additionally, programs that automate movement or actions in the game are not allowed. Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed”

• Inner space boxer modifies the game client
• Logitech gaming drivers (among many others) can be used to automate movement or actions in the game
• GINA / Gamparse assist me in monopolizing an area

So I figure there's a risk I'll get banned one day and have zero reason given to me for why!

What is so difficult to understand here? The use of 3rd party software with EverQuest is NOT ALLOWED. It never has been allowed. Therefore, there will never be a list of approved or safe software to use. With that in mind, if you use any software to make boxing easier then you put yourself at risk for a suspension or ban - period.

With the above said, if you follow the true box rules outlined for the specific server to the letter you will never have a problem.

And, honestly I don't understand what the fuss is about. They literally have different servers setup for all boxing types.

This is not accurate as the restrictions are not that broad. The actual restrictions are based on what the software does and if it allows you to do things that would not be normally possible.

There's no need to muddy the waters by acting like log parsers are in any way controversial or potentially bannable.

I think the problem with the "mapping software" is that it can't be detected easily. It doesn't modify the client at all, it runs on a completely separate computer(under linux) and basically just "sniffs" network traffic on the local Switch/Router. If I understand correctly.

I don't know what they are trying to achieve here exactly, but the afk checks on OBVIOUS 365/24/7 "players" just doesn't cut it. Meanwhile, I and others got suspensions for 3rd party programs? The only 2 things I use are Gina for raiding(Gina is REQUIRED for raiding in every raiding guild I've ever been a part of), and Multiplicity, which I use to move the screen to a 2nd monitor as needed for anything I can't do with the numpad attached to every computer.

I've since uninstalled Multiplicity, even though I can swear I saw an employee state it was greenlighted for use as long as you don't use it to automate gameplay somehow.

It almost seems like they change the rules w/o telling the players, or different employees interpret the rules differently, resulting in players saying wtf when they get suspensions for using software they were told were allowed.

The biggest problem for me with all of this is there doesn't seem to be any consistency from when they greenlight 3rd party apps, to the suspension waves.

Really?

cause the naked mages farming HS key in LOIO / goblin in warsilk wood are still there, they havent moved in a week +.

The mage army monopolizing Cazel is still there, and still start nuking at the same time, before cazel model even render.

That dude with 10 character killing phinny every 8 hour is still there.

But random people who play 2-3 char at once got hit.

So what exactly are they targetting? the super obvious and unarguable mage bot camping random stuff through the world who apparently have the appropriate software, or a regular 3-boxer who did not have the appropriate software to send a keystroke to another computer?

Daybreak cheat detection is a joke. If I play with my significant other we can get randomly DC'd by some automated system because we both pressed "1" to nuke at the same time... but krono farmer can run little armies because their setup sufficiently obfuscate their key presses?

You can scratch off your list of programs GINA people are trying to name as possible causes of suspension. It only reads your log file and responds from that with audio or visual overlays on your monitor not in the EQ client.

There are 2 parsers out that I know of and neither of them interacts with the EQ client and only read the log file...scratch that false flag off the distraction list also. The overlay they produce is not in your EQ client and placed on your monitor.

Maps are a joke right? Players make maps and distribute them as its supposed to be. Now if your using a program that uses you map to show mobs and what loot they have...you should be suspended.

I S B is supposedly allowed since its a broadcaster, but there is the possibility it can be flagged depending what the user does with it.

Digital KVM program...maybe. Sounds like the above program on how its supposed to work though.

Discord or other voice programs didn't make the distractor list of why people are being suspended .