I think fast unlocks and fast exp are bad for the game

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Rothj, Aug 11, 2022.

  1. Rothj Augur

    So, what prompted me to post this is I logged in Yelinak for the first time in a while since launch. The server is fairly dead... 400 in general 1 and 50 in general 2. Yes, I'm aware it's 10 am. However, these numbers are still really bad compared to past tlp. I get that a lot of people didn't like that there was no interesting ruleset, but personally what I feel is the problem is that they are speedrunning us through classic eq too many times and too fast. It IS more convenient to be able to level faster, and it is probably less boring for a lot of people to have faster unlocks.

    The problem is that longterm the game gets devalued until it's not really worth anything. Phinigel just got merged into vox recently... a server just sitting there with a new player tag for years. I remember putting A LOT of time into Phinigel, and a lot of the same people on the tlp forums now would be there arguing about how it's better to stay on Phinigel and not roll on the new server. Well, everyone on that server is now no longer on a tlp server or already migrated.

    So, what do I think should happen? Slow down unlocks as a starting point and make servers come out every 2 years instead of every 1 year. This makes it feel like you're not wasting your time as much when you commit to a server. I also think exp should be slowed down, but boost exp from level 1-6. Right now level 1-6 exp is really slow compared to how it should be which makes creating new alts a pain in general. If you speed that up, you could easily slow down exp in the higher levels to extend the actual journey of leveling a bit.

    I would suggest making a new server in the next year or two and calling it a "old school server" where you slow down the exp some, slow down unlocks, go back to true boxing, and possibly try to make early game more difficult so that we can't just tank a group of reds like it's nothing. People would complain and I could be totally wrong on this but I think right now what's happening is the equivalent of force feeding people cake over and over until they get sick of it.

    Edit: Correction - I forgot there's also a general channel in addition to general1/2. so the server isn't actually that dead.
    Dexxeaa likes this.
  2. Vlorg Augur

    general chat were booming during the first week of Kunark launch.

    if anything, the Xpac are releasing too slowly, not too fast.
    rangerous and Yinla like this.
  3. Rothj Augur


    You will always get a spike during any new expansion release, in the SHORT TERM. But long term it's not necessarily helping.
  4. Hirbow Augur

    I would welcome and agree on a slower pace server; the general census is classic EQ is Classic->PoP.
    Yet people want super fast unlocks to get to PoP to then jump to the next server and quit; The most succesful server has been Phinny which has made it to live EQ and had the slowest of the slowest xp rates throughout all TLP's; I personally would welcome a more classic type server with longer lockouts, longer OW spawns, delayed XP, so people can enjoy the game instead of rushing to Planes of Power to claim they are #1 and quit.
  5. Master Kahleem Augur

    I HEAVILY disagree with you.

    I don't have time anymore to play 8hours a day, just to keep up, on every TLP release.

    Most TLP's don't last more than a year before they die off. People want to progress, and achieve things in this time per TLP.

    Having "slow" EXP servers does not make things better.
    Having "fast" EXP servers does not make things better.

    What truly differentiates a "good" TLP from a "bad" TLP now, realistically, is its design and "gimmic" for that particular iteration.

    Yelinak struggles because it's the same thing we've seen 10 times before.
    Vaniki struggles because it's super niche and doesn't appeal to a larger EQ audience.

    The only reason Vaniki is sustainable right now is BECAUSE it is GoD (now DoDn) exp rates, has 2x loot drop and 50% rare chance with weird resist/gear ruleset that make it unique.

    Future TLP shouldn't be driven ONLY by experience rates. Experience rates for future TLP is dictated by unlock times, expansions, and their specific niche ruleset.

    Just saying "oh the exp and/or unlock rates are what makes a TLP popular' is disingenuous and is skewing the real point around a TLP being popular or unpopular.


    My personal opinion? I love fast exp, with slow unlocks. I'm an alt-o-holic, so no surprise there.
    That doesn't mean what I "love" is best for a TLP.
    Duder, Aendro and Appren like this.
  6. Vlorg Augur


    it would help me. it would help my guild.

    lvl 60s, got epic, got VP key... the boredom is setting in.

    2 months for classic and kunark is friggin long. the lvl 70 slog is friggin long... want to extend luclin, PoP and GoD a bit more? we can discuss that.
    rangerous likes this.
  7. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Won't slower unlocks just have players taking a break after until the next expansion unlocks once they get everything they want? Just because people still need things from an expansion doesn't mean they are going to be playing during the work day.
    Appren likes this.
  8. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    It could be that after playing through classic and kunark, two of the more lackluster expansions that exist as far as raids and content and abilities go, on Ragefire, Phinny, Corinav, Agnarr, Mangler, Aradune and Mischief, people might be tired of doing so finally. It could also be that Vaniki, even though it does not appeal to me personally, is at least a new way of doing things and is drawing in a lot of players who would otherwise be playing on Yelinak? I'm not sure of the answer here.

    One thing is clear though, they might want to do something different with future TLPs to draw more players back. I, for one, will never play on another TLP server that has a start before TSS unless there are drastic changes to the ruleset/release schedule. I don't know if slower XP rates is the way to go since in the past the community has pushed back pretty hard against them. Sometimes they go too far in the other direction, like with Selos. Burnout can happen really fast when you are raiding so many times a week. I think rather than half lockouts, they should have just done what they did with Underfoot on TLPs and doubled the loot and keys.

    I can definitely get behind them not launching a new TLP every year though. I think spreading out the TLP population so much over the last 7 years is part of why we have population issues on these servers late in the game. Allowing people to see parts of the game they might not have seen would be a good thing. I have high hopes with Vaniki for people who normally only play on a TLP until the next is launched that they get to see that the game past GoD or past the level 70s era is not only a good game, but perhaps much better than they thought.
    Xhartor likes this.
  9. Xhartor Augur

    Corinav so far has probably been least popular of all the phinny clones, largely because it had slower exp then agnarr. All of the Phinny clone that came after Corinav with faster exp have been more successful long term.

    As for unlock speed, there is a noticeably larger drop off on 12 week expansion over 8 week expansions. People get tired of running over and over for 12 week duration, this get made worse when expansions that don't offer enough content to phase out the previous expansion (LDoN, the entire 70's run, TBS). On 8 week expansions, people are starting to get tired of the content when the next expansion drops.

    Vaniki is like Selo, it's designed to appeal to the crowd looking for more challenging version of EQ. It offers rewards for running content under level and under powered.
  10. Rhythar Augur

    I'd like to see a server with slower unlocks. Fast unlocks create servers which encourage ksing, pay to win, cheating, and krono farming. Slower unlocks would be good for a more casual crowd that's been lost over time.
    Kurlok likes this.
  11. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    Slower unlocks would just create more time in Classic, Kunark and Velious - which is where Krono farmers make the bulk of their Krono. This is also the time period where the majority of the cheating happens. And pay to win works best if the items being sold are not no drop, which is again, mostly Classic, Kunark and Velious.

    All of the things you are describing are being done by players who have no intention of staying on that server. They come to the server for the first few expansions so they can make their money and move on. By increasing the amount of time they have to make money, you are only increasing your exposure to them.
    rangerous and Genoane like this.
  12. Master Kahleem Augur

    I know entire guilds filled with 100+ people who would not be playing on Vaniki if it were not for the faster paced EXP.

    The unlocks are a different matter entirely though.

    Slower =/= Better
  13. Rothj Augur

    Vaniki is way different from yelinak. It also has less than half the population of yelinak.
  14. Rhythar Augur

    Krono farmers make money on those servers because the fast unlocks attract people who want to level up as fast as possible and get strong gear as fast as possible. That wouldn't happen on a slow-unlock server.
  15. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    You assume that people would be patient and willing to wait for those items, even on a slow unlock server. I think betting against peoples need for instant gratification is a losing bet. The Krono farmers would still make a killing there, and the toxicity they bring with them would still be a part of that server.
  16. Rhythar Augur

    I think if they released a slow unlock server alongside a fast unlock server, the slow unlock would be much less toxic.
  17. Tweakfour17 Augur

    How was the toxicity of Mangler vs Selo?
    rangerous, Stymie and code-zero like this.
  18. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    I suppose it is possible that you are correct. However since you feel the more casual crowd might flock to a slow-unlock server, its also possible that there would be a large market on that server for people not willing to wait or fight with the Krono farmers for gear they want/need. I don't think a slow unlock server would totally eradicate the toxic behavior though..
  19. SoandsoForumUser Augur

    Mangler felt worse to me, but it also had a larger player base so hard to suss out the difference. Once you got to GoD most of the idiots left and it quieted down, but even today there's still anti-social tools training people for stupid reasons and guilds supporting them.
  20. code-zero Augur

    Farmers are going to go to where they have a market. If the low XP slow unlock server constantly had 30 minute queue to get in then that's going to be the server with the most farmers and not the sister server with a unique ruleset and higher XP with faster unlocks.