Why is SOLO exp nerfed?

what zone?

most camp in chardok dont really require you to move more than 10 feet in order to pull something... unless your DPS is so amazing ( IE you have so much OOG char helping) that kennel + over/under isn't enough for you.

There are only so many hit points and if a wizard does 20% in one hit, they did 20% of the damage on that mob. There is also so much more that goes into it. Finishing the mob off at 20% means less time the mob is active which means that mob can't do additional damage, can't divide the parties concentration, time that can be used on killing another mob, faster pulls from the puller, etc, etc. It is a cascading effect.

Think deeper. This isn't a straight mathematical equation, this is real, not ideal.

First you have to consider that usually every player in the party except a cleric is playing some part in doing damage to a mob. 5 players divided by 100% equals 20% each player if all things were equal which they aren't.

First you have to figure in most normal fights, your main melee DPS is from the tank which aren't even technically a DPS class. Your other melee DPS would be a rogue since he stays attached to the mob the entire fight, but everyone feels Rogues suck as bad or worse than a Wiz so you can toss the Rogue out of the equation in most parties. A Monk is going to be pulling most likely so is going to lose probably 50%+ of their DPS due to wanting to keep mobs in the camp on a continuous basis. Bards don't DPS for , Shaman is there mostly for preserving the mana of the healer by using slows and buffs of course and can do respectable DPS but no one is counting on the Shaman DPS being a deciding factor. Druid is in the same category, it has respectable DPS but suffers from the same issues Wiz do, mana AND is not as good at DPS as a Wiz. Chanters get their DPS though their charmed pet which is probably going to do 50% plus of the DPS to any mob. Necro has DoTs so half their DPS is wasted.

So normal party, normal fight. 30-50% of DPS comes from Chanter Charmed pet leaving 50-70% life. Wiz accounts for 20% since it can Nuke one time and chunk off 20% of the damage. The remaining 30-50% comes from all other classes. How do you get that doing nearly half of the non-charmed pet damage to a mob is weak? Remove the chanter from the group and you still have the Wiz doing 1/5th the damage outputted on that mob to kill it. Even then 20% is doing its fair share of damage considering normally only 5 our of 6 group members are expected to do some level of damage to the mob your engaging.

Also, Shaman run out of mana, Druids run out of mana, Mages, Necros, Pallies, SKs, all run out of mana, ALL casters, any who can cast, run out of mana and their efficiency drops. Why it is only Wiz's get punished for running out of mana?

Sorry but at the end of the day, the Wiz is 100% holding its own out there in the DPS role and are doing it as good as any other DPS can. If you don't believe this, your blind.

dude. stop embarassing yourself.

Rogues blow wizard out of the water.

monks dont spend 50% of their time pulling.

without the bard your wiz does even less damage.

druid and necro can charm on top of their dps / utility toolkit.

Nevermind the ideal scenario where you get to rain all the time with max mana regen... in your typical XP group you are ice comet'ing / draught of ice'ing to not break CD and your DPS drop down to below-tank level.

Parse an hour long XP session in a regular chardok/seb XP group and see for yourself. Wizard are the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel class by a substantial margin.

So much hyperbole in these replies. It just wreaks of elitist mentality.

Suggestion 1: Get a group
As someone who has actually played the two least desirable classes on TLP servers, rogue and wizard, I can assure you that not one single wizard nor rogue is actively trying NOT to get a group. They simply do not get invited to groups.

Suggestion 2: Start your own group
I have always attempted to create my own groups even when I am not playing an undesirable class. It works some of the time, but not all of the time. It definitely does not work the majority of the time.

Why? Glad you asked. There are never enough of the holy trinity to go around for all the people LFG. It just doesn't happen. Tanks, clerics, and enchanters LFG are always in limited supply. As such, the first question you get when you ask one of them if they want to join a group is, "What camp?" The second question you get is, "Do you have a [insert one of the other 2 holy trinity classes here] in the group already?"

The point is, they can and are very picky about what pick up groups they join. They only want and take the very best available, and nine times out of ten, that isn't your group because you're playing a less desirable class. Yay you!

Suggestion 3: Make friends and create a static group
Well duh. Of course people playing undesirable classes try to make friends and create a static group. It's hit and miss. If you get in early on a TLP server, and get lucky, you just might pull this off. Usually what ends up happening is you make friends with a tank or a cleric, and it goes great for a while, but then after a couple days of not being able to find an enchanter (or what ever the other holy trinity classes you don't have friends with), your friend apologizes and goes to join a group that has an opening for them. I don't blame them. They shouldn't be held back by my choice in class I am playing.

Suggestion 4: Ask your guild
L O L... have you EVER actually tried doing this yourself while playing a rogue or wizard? Once in a blue moon, a guild member will take pity on you, and invite you to a group. It certainly is not the norm. Usually what you get is .... complete silence .... hello... anyone home?

If you push the issue, you get the lovely canned response of:

• Make your own group
• Go quad kite mobs.. you're a wizard Harry!
• Make a box account to play with

The whole rely on your guild mantra just doesn't work the vast majority of the time. Would be great if it did, but the reality is that most just don't do it.

The point is, there honestly is no great solution to the issue. There just isn't. I feel for the OP of this thread, because I know what they are going through. I've been there. It sucks.

The solution I ended up going with on my last TLP server, Mischief, was to box a more desirable class on a second account with my rogue. It made creating a group much easier. I hate having to box, but it was a necessity.

Good luck.

In the past I have had many disagreements with Risiko, but I think he makes some really valid points here.

I will say, however, that having played a Wizard on Aradune since classic, I really did not have the same experience, although I know many who did. Perhaps it is something that only really happens early on in the game. I find myself being very desirable in groups on Aradune currently in TSS content. Also in Velious and Luclin doing AE groups in various places.

Im not sure that a boost to solo XP is really the answer here, but it might be? It really hard to account for so many things early in the game that are fixed just by making it to a later era. I feel bad that I don't have any real solutions to this problem, but I wish those of you struggling the very best and I hope you find a way forward that suits you.

Well, your nukes in TSS are infinitely more mana efficient, you have a lot more mana regen, the wildmagic line who can refresh your harvest, OOC regen, you get mana back on killing blows... you don't have to sit idle for 10+ minute after 2 minute of action.

Warrior ( and sk-paladin, but that's mostly a warrior problem) threat is also MUCH MUCH better which means you don't have to twist 3 concussion inbetween nuke and squeeze your buttcheeks whenever you crit.

early EQ wizard problem arise from the fact that mana regen is soooooo abysmal... and that you cant really use rain spell without breaking all the CC around your target.

As far as AoE group goes, having several OOG enchanter chain stunning isn't really something you see outside of PL'ing services.

Typically when I do AE groups, there are no stuns. We used to pull 10-15 mobs at a time in Griegs End and I would tank them while doing AEs with a cleric healing and a shaman slowing and doing backup heals. Granted I was very well geared at the time, but it is possible. Even in DoDH, I could easily tank and AE nuke 5-7 targets at a time in Fibblebrap #5 as long as I had a decent healer/druid to put reptile skin on me.

I used rains all through Kunark and beyond, and almost never broke a mez. Thing is, you don't have to target the mob you intend to damage to rain it, you can target the tank, or even yourself to use as an anchor. If you have high enough resists, you will resist 85-90% of the rains. As long as the mob you intend to damage is within the AE range of the spell, they wiull get hit, regardless of your current target. Even targeting corpses works (or it used to) for adjusting your rains so that you don't break mez.

Also, Wildmagic line does not come in until TBS, and even then it doesn't refresh Harvest. You are thinking of Malediction of Havoc, which is introduced in Underfoot and later becomes the "Claw" line of spells. And as far as my TSS nukes being more efficient? Leap of sparks, which is one of the bread and butter nukes for a level 75 Wizard in TSS has a 4.46 Damage per mana ratio. Tears of Solusek has a 6.38 damage per mana ratio, so even adjusting for focus effects and AA, it comes out about the same or maybe slightly better, not "far more efficient".

I agree that the mana regen on a Wizard is a terrible thing in early eras, but your main goal in those eras, and really all eras, to maximizing DPS is proper mana management. Only use the most efficient spells, try not to get lured into only wanting to use the "big nukes".

Last but not least, as Wizard unless it is a raid boss, you shouldn't be afraid to get hit. You WILL pull aggro sometimes if you are playing to the limits of your abilities. Try to gear yourself so that you can take a few hits before the tank can taunt off you.

Guess you havent seen what the real AE group are, when you pull an entire zone. not 5 mob.

And there's no secret to rains, there's no skill check to it. if there's mob near your target you will break CC... stop the BS. and you aren't sitting at 150+ cold resist or more just to resist your own rain ( and waste charge on yourself).

as for your mana calculation, now please add all the mana pres you get from focus and AA and all the damage amp you get from focus and AA.

As far as raid goes, if a SK/paladin cannot tank trak / VP dragon, your wizard sure as heck isn't taking hits either. there's no amount of gear that will allow you to do so in-era especially not if you want the resist to actually to do something in the fight instead of jousting every 12 second.

stop the BS.

Ok there cowboy, slow down a bit. I never said I was taking hits from raid bosses. Re-read the post please. I specifically said "UNLESS IT IS A RAID BOSS" in my post. We are talking about gaining XP in this thread, correct? You don't really gain XP in raids. So being able to take a hit or two from trash mobs in non-raid zones is what I was talking about.

As far as rains go, again, read my post. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY TARGET A MOB TO DAMAGE IT WITH A RAIN. Make sure all the mezzed mobs are out of range. If you play a wizard any amount you should know the radius of your rain spells, what mobs will get hit and which ones wont. There is definitely skill involved in using rains around mezzed mobs. Just because you have not seen anyone do so does not mean it doesn't exist. Talk to your chanters and tanks, have them help with positioning. Have the tank pull the mob you are killing out of the pack. Whatever you need to do.

We can argue over resisting rains as much as you want, but it doesn't do either of us any good. I do not plan to play a wizard (or any other class for that matter) in any era before TSS again. But I did resist my fair share of rains during Kunark, Velious and Luclin. You are aware that spell resist checks work differently for Players versus NPCs and you don't need 150+ resist check to resist spells cast by players, yes? Not to mention, if you are using rains on a single target, wasting one charge on yourself and then backing out of the AE radius, 3 waves still hit the target, so it is not a waste at all since 3 waves is the max for single target anyhow.

I will concede that you are probably correct in your assumption that with Focus effects and AA, the spells being cast at level 75 are probably more mana efficient, but that has nothing to do with the spells themselves. The game just simply gets better as you go along. This is why I will never again find myself stuck in some of the earlier eras.

Just so you know, I have been a part of many AE groups that did pull half or more of the zone at a time. If we are talking just about the ability to get a group and get XP from that group, sure, I will admit, some of my AE groups were not pulling the same number of mobs as the groups in The Deep with out of group chanters stunning pulling the whole zone. But it was a TON more XP than I would get solo, or even with a normal group that pulls 1-2 mobs at a time. And we had no need for a tank. We were doing Gate in GE with 3 people in era and keeping most if not all of it clear, including pulling some from behind us when we ran out of mobs to pull.

I'm not trying to "BS" you here, I'm only trying to help. How you choose to utilize that help or not is up to you.

the amount of BS people will sprout in the face a blatant balance issues is astounding.

Don't misinterpret what I am saying here. I agree that something should be done for Wizards as far as balance goes, I'm just saying that the situation is not nearly as dire as you make it out to be. Most of the balance issues with Wizards don't even happen until Rain of Fear and beyond. On raids I was consistently in the top 3 DPS if not #1 DPS in Classic, Velious and Luclin. Kunark kinda sucked. In PoP the melee started to take over once they had PoTime weapons but I still made top 5. The time from GoD-DoN it was really hard to get into the top 5, but in DoDH things got better with Trifurcating Magic and I was once again able to compete with other classes. A few times on Mayong, with some really good luck, I would top that parse. Granted I had to staunch to do so, but it was worth it to beat the rogues and monks.

The main issue with Wizards in their current state early on in the game is 100% of our damage comes from our mana bar. Mages have pets for passive damage, melee have auto-attack which doesn't use any resources. Necros also have a pet and superior mana regen. Something should be done, but I'm not sure what they could do without seriously increasing the power of wizards during those eras. With a full bar of mana and proper mana management, you can already perform very well.

If they were to better balance the group game for wizards, it could make them unstoppable in a raid setting, so I'm not sure what solutions you might have for the problem that would even be considered.

Wizard to Wizard, all I can tell you is it does get better. Once Velious rolls around, you should be able to top the parse on Avatar of War with Cold based rains at the very least. And Vulak is a long fight, but if you manage your mana properly you can easily beat everyone on that fight as well.

The group game gets a bit better as well. I remember getting a lot of groups in lower dogs during velious. With a raid geared knight it was easy to PB AE there and contribute the majority of the damage for the group. Kunark is just kinda crappy for Wizards.

People that play their class well and aren't jerks somehow manage to get groups just fine. Just saying.

They usually don't have to resort to the scum of norrath known as pickup groups with randos

This isn't intended as an attack on you personally Jeskola, more taking aim at a community-wide perspective that is pernicious & destructive in its closed-mindedness, but this is the kind of ingrained abhorrent attitude that has successfully been destroying EverQuest for the past decade or so, blanket statements like this are absolutely infuriating as they are wrong on mutiple levels.

Regarding players not in your own guild as "scum" is extremely common.
How well are you going to recruit players for your amazing guild with such a welcoming stance? Are you basically saying to the "scum" hey, if you want to stop being scum you must join us? What an irresistable proposition that is.

Sure, every so often, if you are actually engaging in PUG's you will meet one or two truly awful players, I make it a habit to PUG as much as possible & most of the people who still play this ancient game are decent folk, but those tiny handful of bad experiences make many players fall back on what really amounts to outer-guild xenomisia.

in this day and age, finding someone who dont randomly AFK for few minute every several minute make it a top 50% player.

so yeah... anytime I get a PuG tank I kind of expect them to mentally fizzle-out and take 2-3 minute to figure out the mob they are currently targetting is a charmed pet while their dial-up brains process the information. Finding a PuG tank who can figure out from which way ( out of 2 way) mob are coming from, taunt before a mez, and keep in mind there's an undead sarnak dragoon charmed in their kennel group make them a top 50% tank. maybe even top 25%.

We're talking about player skill here, not how friendly they are in chat ( more often than not they are also AFK in chat............). But this is coming from someone who pushed high lvl keys in M+ and tend to like speedrunning in every game. mileage may vary based on your expectations and experiences.



I tend to agree with the above poster.

Funny thing about PUG's. Years ago I grew averse to them due to truly terrible characters however I'd occasionally run a daily Teek's or an HA with someone who'd be decent. Maybe see them around and group again and then they'd disappear. Seriously had that happen a number of times, message someone in their guild hear back that they'd not been online in a month or they had just left but no one knows where they went. Either way PUG's have overall been at best a disappointment for me for years and at worst just terrible

Not wrong if true

Also, the higher end raid guilds have recruiter(s) that like to wallow amongst those down in Flea Bottom so the rest of us can chill in the Red Keep with our combination of guild/friend groups and boxes.

Lol

Too true.

/brushes off fleas.