Monks in 2022- wherefore art thou?

Discussion in 'Melee' started by Cicelee, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. Szilent Augur

    It's the same class defining raid role as 11 out of 16 classes.

    3 classes are equipped to take raid hits. They're interchangeable; a mix of them is generally strongest for the raid.
    2 classes are equipped to heal raid damage. They're interchangeable; a mix of them is generally strongest for the raid.
    11 classes synergize with each other to deal a raid's worth of damage. They're interchangeable; a mix of them is generally strongest for the raid.
    Dre. likes this.
  2. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Monks had a class rep who knew that Monks would be nerfed into oblivion and fast, if they were to become OP again. SK's had a class rep who knew that if they became OP, they wouldn't get much done to them for years and only a bit at a time.

    You really cannot compare Monks and SKs, the DPS rankings were firm in 2005 and really still are now. If Monks were to have became OP, then it would have been noticed instantly and their would have been irrefutable proof of it, with monks being nerfed in short order. The nerf likely would have also been overkill taking years to make back what was lost, that is how the Devs treat monks. The SKs however, their OP'ness is/was a lot harder to show. It never really showed up in places where it threatened other classes in a raid or even really a group setting, it made them great at solo'ing and in older content, but not to the point where people were going to brigade them for usurping where others should be according to the Devs. More to the point, Monks being OP means everyone knows it instantly. SKs being OP most people don't see that big of a difference unless they watch the SK doing stuff alone.
    Niskin likes this.
  3. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    The Monk 2h with speed focus will out dps the one with only the highest dmg. But ignoring that, the Speed Focus is not the first burn disc that would be used. I don't think even the second in most cases.
  4. DaciksBB Augur

    (insert ratio is king meme)
  5. Snazster Elder

    This sounds about right. I've topped 1.2 million dps on Shei Ventras (and without using a glyph), but everything has to be just right. We do all nine TOL raids each week in about 3 hours per night over 3 nights. Working on some of the last achievements, and playing with different strats, slows us down.

    My experience is that the best necros will do a hell of a lot more than what anyone else can do. Behind them are the better mages, rogues, berserkers, rangers, followed by all five monks in a tight cluster (and yes, it's a struggle, we are working our arses off to get even that), then the rest of the folks.

    Slight digression: Shei Ventras is almost unique in the current expansion's raids because we melees don't have to spend a lot of time changing targets, running away when told, or dodging auras. All of these impact melee dps to the point where I feel the current expansion is actually melee dps unfriendly (unbalanced, with melee dps coming off the worst). And monks don't even get a "spine snapping kick" to go with all the headshot/assassinate/decap going on. End digression.

    The point remaining, if all we are valued for in raids these days is melee DPS, then there needs to be something special we bring to the table (aside from the artificial feel good mechanic of ADPS). Regardless of what some people say about all tanks being fungible, casters, melee dps, etc. they are not. Most raids are just enough different that it makes a difference if you have too many warriors and not enough SKs or paladins. That means they are not completely fungible. Same with every other class, except monks.

    We are playing big damn epic fantasy heroes, we should all have the chance (just the chance) to be the best at something and that something needs to be something that is valued.
    Niskin likes this.
  6. Szilent Augur

    what does this mean?
  7. Snazster Elder

    Masters’Synergy isn’t a raid role, The devs just gave us a pork chop to tie around our necks to ensure the other kids would still want to play with us.

    Then they gave the other melee classes their own, to keep us from feeling singled out.
    Xianzu_Monk_Tunare likes this.
  8. Szilent Augur

    Weird take. All sixteen classes got Synergy AAs at the same time, level 105 in EoK.
  9. Windance Augur

    Notice how none of the monks parsed in the top 10?

    How are the other "pure" DPS classes doing on the same fights? ( zerk / rogue )
  10. Szilent Augur

    that night in particular, those events in particular? some better, some worse

    Combined (101): A netherbian warrior in 2213s, 67.81B Damage @30.64M, 8. Rogue = 2.07B@943.35K in 2190s {X} | 9. Berserker = 1.97B@893.81K in 2200s {D} | 10. Berserker = 1.93B@878.30K in 2200s {XD} | 12. Monk = 1.85B@838.66K in 2205s {G7G} | 13. Monk = 1.84B@841.97K in 2191s {GGG} | 14. Monk = 1.73B@784.89K in 2198s | 18. Rogue = 1.44B@658.83K in 2190s {G} | 27. Rogue = 1.15B@531.27K in 2174s {X} | 28. Monk = 1.12B@514.11K in 2179s {X}

    appears that was one of the weeks that shades & horses were Decappable; I see Assassinates on the shades in the log, too

    If what you care about is parse ranking then what you do is find and keep the company of nincompoops. Classes balanced, yeah?

    What I *notice* about that parse is that the only people posting them don't agree that monks are in the shitter.
  11. 55monky New Member

    Tonight just got done. Lot of moving around obviously but this was the parse I got to finish off Doomshade.

    Doomshade in 310s, 4,065.8m @13115334 | Asphodelle + pets 520.6m | Carden 279.7m | Hrothgarr + pets 244.6m | Thorque + pets 243.8m {72} | Vomikal + pets 209.2m | Mikeey(ME THE MONK) 202.1m {7} | Kazana + pets 196.7m | Bantay + pets 185.6m {H} | Lecho + pets 177.4m | Taktek + pets 172.2m

    Order of dps
    1. Necro
    2. Necro
    3. Mage
    4. Zerker
    5. Necro
    6. Monk
    7. Beastlord
    8. Ranger
    9. Beastlord
    10. SK
  12. Symbius Augur


    310 seconds and zero combine adds... think you missed a large chunk there.
  13. Szilent Augur

    "to finish off doomshade" - think that is just a log of 29%-0
  14. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    Maybe if you were raid geared, not if you were group geared. There were a few zones where you could, but not the majority of it.
  15. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    When the monks are not given the ADPS, using ADPS in the calculations though is an issue.
  16. Lisard Silly

    retire monk fellas, reroll. all the monks in SR are lol. can play literally any other class and bring more to the raid force.

    if they dont plan on giving monks new stuff because it takes months to come up with a name on a copy paste ability (what a poor excuse for laziness imo), heres 2 simple things they can do to make monk relevant and it circumvents the spell dev (GG item dev be the hero)

    1. Monk weapons need like an additional 100 base damage ontop of current trend while keeping the current delays


    2. they need to uncap / increase our AA thunderfoot damage so it can compete with Headshot, Assassination, Slay Undead, Decap.

    Monk Thunderfoot (can only proc once per press of flying kick ability, which in itself is dumb, because they nerfed it like 3x into uselessness over the years, Low end like 100k maxes out at roughly 1m under certain scenarios)

    rough common low hit
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 88836 points of damage. (Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 99641 points of damage.
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard begins casting Thunderfoot XIX.
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 210838 points of damage.
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 35316 points of damage. (Critical)
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 37408 points of damage. (Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 37446 points of damage. (Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 30798 points of damage.
    06/12/22 02:48:12 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 30539 points of damage.

    rough average / common high
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 190518 points of damage. (Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard begins casting Thunderfoot XIX.
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 978468 points of damage. (Critical)
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 58621 points of damage. (Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 36333 points of damage.
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 53898 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 49473 points of damage. (Riposte Strikethrough Lucky Critical)
    06/12/22 02:49:05 PMLisard kicks a dark guardian for 34886 points of damage. (Lucky Critical)

    Paladin Slay Undead (can proc every swing/attack/special attack so long as its flagged undead, low end 3m+ per auto attack, bit lower if proc'd on a bash)
    06/12/22 09:56:13 PMPaladin pierces Doomshade for 3818870 points of damage. (Slay Undead)
    06/12/22 09:56:13 PMPaladin pierces Doomshade for 3818870 points of damage. (Slay Undead Flurry)


    Ranger headshot (proc limit, common occurance, low end 2m-3m+ per)

    06/12/22 06:44:59 PMRanger shoots Thall Tetoracu Liako for 5763055 points of damage. (Critical Headshot)
    06/12/22 06:44:59 PMRanger shoots Thall Tetoracu Liako for 6214176 points of damage. (Lucky Critical Headshot)
    06/12/22 06:44:59 PMRanger shoots Thall Tetoracu Liako for 85969 points of damage. (Lucky Crippling Blow Headshot)

    Rogue Assassinate (proc limit, common occurance, low end 2.5m+ per)

    06/12/22 07:58:35 PMRogue backstabs Torgarath Tekar for 11174564 points of damage. (Critical Assassinate)
    06/12/22 07:58:35 PMRogue backstabs Torgarath Tekar for 11174564 points of damage. (Critical Assassinate)


    Berserker Decap (proc limit, its also pretty sucky, but still does more dmg and you can proc it way more, low end 250k+ can proc it numerous times in 1 round)

    06/12/22 09:29:59 PMBerserker hit a netherbian warrior for 251000 points of physical damage by Decapitation XVIII.
    06/12/22 09:29:59 PMBerserker hit a netherbian warrior for 251000 points of physical damage by Decapitation XVIII.
    06/12/22 09:29:59 PMBerserker hit a netherbian warrior for 995090 points of physical damage by Decapitation XVIII. (Lucky Critical)
    DaciksBB and Strykz2 like this.
  17. DaciksBB Augur

    qft ;)
  18. Ditka Journeyman

  19. Cicelee Augur

    So it has been 3 1/2 months since I started this. Been playing monk outside of raids, even done a couple raids on monk and gotten some gear upgrades. And I am realizing what you all are saying-

    Monk class is just not what it used to be.

    Now granted, my basis of comparison is a magician I have constantly kept max AA and geared every expansion for the past 10 or so. But while my mage can handle 3 current expansion dark blues at once, my monk is challenged with one light blue from two expansions prior. And yes there is a gear, AA, augment issue with the monk- I know that. I just felt with the smattering of gear I do have, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 current expansion type 5, that I could at least handle a light blue.

    I also still see a mountain to climb. Probably 10-15k AA behind, no epic 2.0, no Jann veil, no progression for COTF and TBL and EOK/ROK, want to do SOD progression for flying kick type 3.... while I have been slowly improving, it is just not at the pace I prefer. And I think to myself, if I do all of this work what is the end result? Could I molo a single trash mob in TOL? Probably not. So what is the point of doing all that work, so I won't die to two trash mobs from the previous expansion?

    It has become frustrating. Not saying a monk should be able to handle three current expansion trash. But geez, I should not have to stress about a light blue con two expansions ago. After struggling on molo lesson burns on TOV dwarves in GD, it made me want to rather max out Artisan Prize on the mage instead of struggle with all this monk stuff.

    Not saying I am ending the monk experiment. But man I need it to be a bit better. And you all are not painting a picture that it does :)
    Wulfhere likes this.
  20. Riou EQResource

    That's the thing in like CotF and prior expansions Monks could handle that in current content, but with the unnecessary addition of always on overpowered Tank Stances then the Designers sky rocketing mob power to compensate because now Tanks are too good, everyone else gets dumpstered by trash mobs while Tank DPS on top of this is also almost on par with real DPS