From an OoW Perspective (Mage & Wiz)

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Avaryne, Jun 14, 2022.

  1. Avaryne Journeyman

    I've always heard (not tested) that wizards would certainly out do mages in a raid scenario. It seems like on Mischief, with all the gear to go around, that hasn't been the case that I have seen. The gap seems unbelievably small. I do know that with fights being as fast as they are that Necro's don't seem to be very effective quite yet.

    If you were to pick, to avoid sitting on your hands half the raid (dot's seem to be wildly ineffective, content is just crushed too fast) would you roll with a mage or a wizard, taking into consideration the rest of the expansions up until TSS for longevity. Curious to hear your thoughts :)
  2. Ishbu Augur

    Its going to come down to how hard the player wants to work, but assuming all things equal, mage > wizard with a lot more to be doing

    That said, it doesnt matter. Both classes are garbage for the role they occupy in a raid during OOW.
  3. Avaryne Journeyman

    I feel like, although mages have their pets, they are locked to basically the two schools of magic. A wizard can draw from ice, fire, magic, but lacks the pet support. I understand none of the caster dps is optimal, but I'm looking for a caster with the burst for these terrifyingly short fights while also gaining some traction leading up to TSS. It's curious that the pet would make up the difference for the mage only being able to fire off from a really basic spell set.
  4. Xhartor Augur

    In SoF mages really pull ahead in damage once the Shock of Many nuke line becomes available.

    It also feels like pets in general are stronger against content in TSS+ then they were in 70 content.
  5. Lineater Augur

    I’ve raided into GoD on a Wiz. From what I observed, on average mages parsed better for the entire raid, and wizards could do more damage on individual bosses. It’s not the gear. It’s balance. Wizards are just underwhelming. For a pure DPS class they should be better at it. And their AA’s are meh. Manaburn stinks.
  6. Mrjon3s Augur

    I Would always roll a mage they are just a strong class and keep getting better as the game goes on. You can still parse ok in the 70 stretch as long as your willing to remember what spell type lands better on which mob. DoDh comes around and mages get better with GoM and the new pet then you have PoR
  7. Ishbu Augur


    Different elemental types barely matter at all and is mostly an after thought, you use your best spells 99% of the time. I also dont know where you are getting this basic spell set thing from. Mages have far more variety in their spell book than wizards do.
  8. error Augur

    By OoW you're already at the point where a maxed out mage's pet is only accounting for maybe 10-12% of their total dps on a boss, assuming the mage is actively nuking and using cooldowns. I don't see why a wizard wouldn't beat a mage on a parse in that era unless their burn AAs are junk or something. Never really had a lot of wizards on my raids so not much to compare mage dps to, though.
  9. Juskov Journeyman

    For me, the low point of mage life in the raid scene was the OOW/DON era, although you can shine on individual fights like Ture, and Arch Magus Vangl. But yeah, it sucks when the end boss is immune to fire and highly resistant to everything else and you are buried in the parse. Alot of the epic fights for some reason have super immune to magic so it seems like no one even wants your help. But mage life starts to get a little bit better each xpac starting in DoDH when you get your Raging Servant. Then later with your "many" line of spells starting in SoF and then twincast tools later, raid life not only improves, but competitive mages will be at or near the top of the parse. You just have to get through the "meleequest" era. I can't say much about wizards, I rarely see them near the top except on specific range fights.
  10. Avaryne Journeyman


    I’ve played a mage on live, but I’ll admit I probably didn’t give it a good shot.
    I loved it for a bit then I found it dull but that was years ago and I didn’t go to in depth with it like I tend to do now. From a damage profile it seemed “basic” back then, not that they necessarily don’t do anything cool and exciting. Bad word choice on my part lol
  11. Vinlail New Member

    As a wizard you weren't on top of the parse on almost every boss up to GoD?!? They are 100% a pure dps if not the best dps on boss fights except for the ones they have to use lures on.
  12. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Mage from SoF+ is significantly better than a wizard in both overall DPS and ability to do content as a solo/box. The 70/75 stretch is kind of up in the air but mage probably still edges out the wiz.
  13. Lineater Augur


    Uh I never said that? I was answering the OP's question, and literally said wizards are better on bosses...

    Yes, I could parse well on bosses, but sustained DPS over an entire raid was still pretty far behind the top melees, and behind a good mage (Especially if you factor in their DS).

    For a class that just does DPS and TL to bind, IMO wizards should simply be better. Manaburn, their signature ability, is rarely worth using in raids which is a total bummer. I can't believe it hasn't been made more useful after 20+ years. Harm Touch is a better raid ability than Manaburn.
  14. Vule_Xyrashue Journeyman

    Mages can hang with Wizards just fine in OOW/DoN, they're both very bad raid DPS classes. Mages fall a bit behind in DoDH/PoR as their big dmg ability from DoDH is a swarm pet that doesn't scale in a raid setting like the Wizards ghetto precursor to Ethereals does. Still both basically get beat by warriors though.

    In TSS when Wizards get real ethereals and instants they're the best raid DPS in the game and mages are still at the bottom of the pack.

    In SoF mages get broken Shock of Many (literally broken, still not fixed!) which makes them the top raid DPS class.

    In SoD Wizards get twincast which puts them back on top.

    Underfoot/HoT/VoA the casters stagnate a BIT but they're both still pretty good.

    In RoF Wizards get claw and Arcane Destruction, they're the top raid DPS class again. Mages stay close. Mages were actually better (slightly) than Wizards in TDS but a lot harder to play, one of the toughest DPS classes to play at that point while Wizards are the easiest.
  15. error Augur

    Mages also get twincast in SoD and massively benefit from it. I'd say that from SoD through at least HoT (since I haven't played anything past that) wizards and mages are essentially equal on most encounters, assuming similar skill/gear/etc... I am kind of jealous of wizards not being dependent on the raid consistently fielding 20+ pets to maximize their damage, but guess that's the tradeoff for mage being so good at group content which is a huge part of progression in these expansions.
  16. Ishbu Augur


    This is definitely not accurate. For example, mages easily beast wizards in DoDH and if they are using their new swarm pet often, they are casting the wrong spells and arent playing well. Im thinking your experiences involve mages who didnt know how to maximize their dps
    Juskov likes this.
  17. Lumiens Augur

    Where are necros ending up in comparison to mages/wizards at these same times?
  18. Vule_Xyrashue Journeyman

    Not as much as wizards since twincast doesn't affect the pet portion of their damage, still helps a lot obviously.
  19. Vule_Xyrashue Journeyman

    Straw man and child please.
  20. Daermon New Member

    Out of curiosity how does a fully stacked melee group vs stacked mage group compare SoF+ (ie monk, bers, rog, bst, shm, brd). Do mages still win out on burns/overall damage?