Vaniki - stun changes trivialize many raid targets

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by coltongrundy, Jun 10, 2022.

  1. coltongrundy Augur

    Apparently the level requirement on stun spells was the only thing prevent stun cheese on most raid mobs. They're not actually immune to stun effects, they're just too high level to be stunned in era.

    On Vaniki stun spells were given an increase of 10 levels to stun targets. Every raid mob in Luclin that is level level 65 or below can be permanently stunned by just a few paladins spamming cease/desist/stun. The mana cost on the stuns is so low, just throw a bard in their group and can they can keep spamming stuns for like half an hour.

    • an evolved burrower (Acrylia Caverns - level 63)
    • Thought Horror Overfiend (The Deep - level 63)
    • The Burrower Beast (The Deep - level 63)
    • Shei Vinitras (Akheva Ruins - level 64) - her MR at least makes it harder to do, but could still be done with enough paladins and mage air pets.
    • Grieg Veneficus (Grieg's End - level 65)
    • Servitor of Luclin (Grieg's End - level 65)
    • Lcea Katta (Katta Castellum - level 60)
    • a glyph covered serpent (Ssraeshza Temple - level 63)
    • Vyzh`dra the Exiled (Ssraeshza Temple - level 63)
    • Rhag`Mozdezh (Ssraeshza Temple - level 63)
    • Rhag`Zhezum (Ssraeshza Temple - level 63)
    • Arch Lich Rhag`Zadune (Ssraeshza Temple - level 63)
    • Blood of Ssraeshza (Ssraeshza Temple - level 63)
    • Thall Va Xakra (Vex Thall - level 60)
    All easily perma stunnable and completely trivializes all of these raid encounters. Wasn't this supposed to be the "challenge" server?
  2. Gheed Is not reading your response

    Come on man. This is groundbreaking content that is pushing Everquest's top tier gamers to their limits!
  3. Magician9001 Augur

    Just like to point out Paladins could already Stun up to 63 in Luclin. Nothing changes for more then half your list.
    Foaming and Shakara like this.
  4. Shakara Augur

    You could always do this the main reasons people didnt are:
    1. Those mobs are fairly easy at lvl 60 with raid gear so the healing to just straight tank it was not intense
    2. They were not high priority targets. on standard TLPs there is no reason to kill most of those other than their orb of luclin as the loot is not that much better than Vellious raid gear.
    Skuz and Foaming like this.
  5. Arclyte Augur

    The day of the paladin has come

    it only took 23 years
    Tucoh and Gnothappening like this.
  6. Oldeqplayer Journeyman

    Oddly enough this seemed to be pushed as the harder server but it really seems like it's not; how well can you cheese a raid event or just bind rush it ... with rewards due to loosened restrictions that made mechanics of the raid fights easier.

    Not for everyone it seems.
  7. coltongrundy Augur


    Paladins normally have one stun spell that can hit level 63 in Luclin. It has a 24 second recast time, and costs 200 mana.

    On Vaniki:
    Cease (1.5s cast time, 9s recast,15 mana, 1s stun)
    Desist (1.75s cast time, 10s recast, 25 mana, 2.5s stun)
    Stun (1.5s cast time, 12s recast 35 mana, 4s stun)

    You can cycle through all 3 of these twice in the time it would normally take to do 1 Quellious' Word of Tranquility, for 15s of total stun time for 150 mana. This is not something you could always do. In the past you could do 1 stun for 200 mana every 24 seconds, and it would get resisted more because mob level normally matters.

    And it was never possible for that stun to land on Shei, Servitor or Grieg.
  8. Ythera Augur

    Or you can just go into Ferubi with your raid and get similar, if not better gear, by stunning and killing named mobs with a swarm of charmed dudes.
  9. sieger Augur

    I feel like you were deeply confused about what this server was. If they simply intended us to kill every fight using the "vanilla", "Forum Approved" technique of: 5-8 max level, geared warriors, backed by a 5-10 cleric CH chain and 35+ random DPS, they would have simply released a level 40 server with GoD unlocked and no other rule changes.

    That is not what they did, instead they released different spell level range rules among a few other changes. The purpose of this server, then, is to literally find what can be done with those new rules. Coming to the forums and then complaining about that...seems shocking and ignorant to me.
    Kylo Classic, Stymie, Yinla and 5 others like this.
  10. Shakara Augur

    Sure you have that but you are not really looking at the whole picture. First while yes under picture perfect scenario your math is correct however its a poor reflection on reality. Mob are not like players and auto attack perfectly. This means the second a mob is no longer stunned or crowd controlled they will hit you. With server lag it is impossible to keep a mob stunned without overlapping your stuns in some way. On top of that when you add more and more players into the equation the ability to coordinate to that level goes exponentially down. This is all assuming an 0% resist rate which is not the case. Greig will resist about 50-60% of your stuns and Shie is even worst. So in reality the lvl 55 pally stun is actually much better because it has no overlap and is much easier to coordinate. In addition your debuffs were much better made up for the lvl difference.

    This is not to say its not a powerful strategy its to say these fights are no more trivial than they were at 60. Many of the fights listed above could be done with 2-3 groups and on Vaniki it is requiring 40-50 toons. further more some of the fights have mechanics that actually dont affect lvl 60 toons. Katta procs a charm and Exiled has an AoE charm that cap in the high 50s. Also with worst gear and lower resists many of the AoEs are much more potent so a lot of the fights are much harder.

    In addition many of these fights were not farm targets due to how poor their loot was. With a strat that makes these targets accessible to lvl 40s it opens up a ton of raid encounters and an opportunity to use items that were never viable before.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. coltongrundy Augur

    You must be playing a Paladin on Vaniki.
  12. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Working as intended
  13. YourJobNotYourLife Elder

    This is so silly. You really don't understand that the devs wanted this server to play out differently than all the vanilla TLPs.

    That said, it is most definitely more challenging.

    From your list, in era on Mischief, I could six box:
    evolved burrower
    Servitor
    Va'Dyn
    Grieg
    Lcea Katta
    glyph covered serpent
    Vhyzdra the Exiled
    Rhag1
    Rhag2

    not to mention others like Itraer Vius, XTC, and High Priest. Many were surely not fast kills but doable nonetheless.

    There is zero chance that any of those targets could be six boxed on Vaniki. So, yes, the server is indeed more challenging. Maybe you just don't realize how easy early era EQ actually is.
    Skuz, Foaming and code-zero like this.
  14. Xeris Augur

    The only thing that's not challenging on Vaniki is the classic targets because no MOTM. CT died in 30 seconds.
    Foaming likes this.
  15. Sarvis Journeyman

    Hearing that a lot of these fights are doable with cheese actually makes me want to try the server. When I first heard of it I just assumed every raid encounter would just be people pulling an Ashli Babbitt.
    Foaming likes this.
  16. Lawyer Augur


    You all are beta testing a new concept. It's going to be broken and exploited. Thanks for paying and supporting EQ.

    The question is, are you having fun? If folks are, then it will likely continue.
    Skuz and Foaming like this.
  17. Foaming I Drank Bleach IRL Once

    I'm having fun on this server. You must hate fun.
    Vicus, Xhartor, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  18. Magician9001 Augur

    I've seen the Thalls in VT be stunned from basically 100% to 0 with 3 Pallies on normal TLPs.

    You have a 1.5 second lockout after casting a spell before you can start casting a spell. What this means is if you cast Desist then cast Cease a mob will get a round off. If you cast Cease into desist mobs will get 2 rounds.

    Cease and desist shouldn't even be cast on mobs if you're trying to stun lock them
    Foaming likes this.
  19. Barton The Mischievous

    Get a raid together, record it showing these mobs permanently stunned on Vaniki until then I don't believe it. Theoretically possible and Reality are 2 different things.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    Yep, exacatly.

    A server without rule changes that encouraged tank n' spank techniques would be interesting, but I find a new ruleset that encourages entirely new and potentially imbalanced ways of playing much more interesting. And with a level 40 cap there's no excuse to stick with a class whose role was made irrelevant instead of rolling up one of the OP classes.