2 mages and what?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Raidarr, Jun 7, 2022.

  1. Raidarr Journeyman

    What class would add as a 3rd with 2 Mages and why?
  2. Alnitak Augur

    A beastlord. Always add a beastlord to a mage. The inter-class synergy is awesome.
  3. Derd Augur

    A Microphone...
    A_ranger001 likes this.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    Bst, brd, enc are all good choices and will help a ton with mana regen and pet ADPS. Brd/Enc helps more with mage ADPS than a beastlord. I'd personally go for bard for track and ease of use.
    Metanis likes this.
  5. Petalonyx Augur

    Druid. Can battle rez, port, evac, snare, root punt (amazing for pulling with a coth partner), buff vs fire dmg, DPS well, especially on burn, benefits the most from mage +90% synergy proc for fire spells, Skin buff for some extra mana regen, AOE spells to heal all pets/AOE dmg, group cure if needed, cheetah speed buff, some pets for mage of many nukes. Port to bind will save u so much time, especially if you have shorter play sessions. Also an easy dps box, although mana regen can be an issue (druids love mod rods!).

    Basically a more comprehensive and convenient kit than alternatives while still capable of producing huge burn dps with mage synergy.
  6. Hitmehard New Member

    Druid is not a bad choice but BST and BRD bring slow, significant damage buffs and huge mana regen. The fire damage buff druids have is nothing compared to the buffs BRD or BST bring to the mages and their pets.

    If OP is already running 2 mages I wouldn’t go DRU over BRD or BST.

    DRU pairs great with MAG don’t get me wrong. But 2 mages will benefit a ton from BRD or BST buffs. Slows are just icing on the cake.
  7. Zalamyr Augur


    Group wolf is very, very good for mages. It has high uptime and both increases their dps and reduces their mana usage. Attack debuffs are good, and don't forget track. I feel like you're also ignoring the benefits of having a player healer versus having complete merc reliance. Druid is in pretty close contention for top mage combo.

    OP didn't really mention if this was a box or not, but assuming it is, bard for sure just for the laziness factor.
  8. Etha Journeyman

    Another mage. Cause why not?
  9. Hitmehard New Member

    Group wolf is flat out garbage compared to the buffs BRD and BST bring to the table, what are you talking about? Why do you think buffing the mages DD is that big of a deal anyway? The majority of their damage comes from the pets. Buffing the pets makes a lot more sense than buffing the mages damage. Especially if you are pet tanking! Druid brings next to nothing to the table for the tank/majority of the damage of the group, BST/BRD will buff the everliving crap out of the pets and they both have slows and snare.

    Druid is a good combo but top mage combo? Maybe after BRD>MAG>BST>NEC>ENC. Every one of those classes brings more to the table for a pair of mages than a druid.

    I didnt forget track, BRD tracks too. Druid heals? VS a merc and the mages own heals? Not that useful. You cant use melee mercs in this group and caster mercs are pretty bad, youd be foolish not to use a healer merc. Attack debuffs? VS slow?? Come on...

    Play what you want but you will be able to tackle harder content much easier with slows and pet buffs. Buffing fluffy will take you much further than buffing the mage. Thats just a fact.

    I dropped my druid for a bard years ago and would never go back. BST is a close second IMO. They both turn the mage pets into little monsters. It was a game changer. Druid complimented the mage very well, the pets not at all. Druid was amazing in the early levels though.
  10. Tucoh Augur

    I'd be interested in seeing something that quantified that claim. It's been a while since I looked at it, but I remember my parsing showing that mage's DD damage outclassing their primary pet handily, while swarm pets did substantial damage on their own. Swarm pets are buffed quite a bit by a bard's aura and shaman aura in ways that are cooperative with mage aura. Shaman's aura (Pact of the Wolf) gives 80% melee haste, mage aura (enhanced theft of essence) gives 25% melee haste and ridiculous ATK and bard aura gives 25% overhaste, multi-attack.

    Also for fun, here's my 4x mage group in action. I miss playing that group even if it was a pretty big disappointment. It gets more fun to watch the more I forget all the problems with it. Maybe I should replace the druid with a cleric and give it another try!!

    Beergoggles likes this.
  11. Beergoggles Elder

    Mage's still out dps their pets. We have between 4 and 7 mages that show up to raid and on parses I just looked at the lowest % of their total parse done by the mage was 58.2% and the highest was 62.8%. So on average you're looking at about a 60/40 average split between the mage's dps and their pets/swarm pets. Swarm pets were doing roughly double the dps of the normal pets.
  12. Raidarr Journeyman

    Thank you all for the input.

    I went Beastlord. (Friend has a bard so Im covered.)
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    One cap

    Just surprised nobody else said it yet.
    MyShadower likes this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    Good choice.
  15. Sancus Augur

    Group Spirit of the Great Wolf is a strong ADPS ability, along with Icerend Aura and Season's Wrath. A Bard will bring more ADPS than a Druid, but Beastlords are far behind from an ADPS standpoint (an Enchanter, Shaman, or Ranger would be preferable). Their primary melee ADPS (hundred hands effects) doesn't boost pets at all, and Mages can maintain a comparable/higher hit damage modifier than Group Bestial Alignment for five minutes out of ten. If you have enough minimum hit damage modifiers, Group Bestial Alignment won't even do anything for pets.

    They definitely have other benefits (e.g., slow), but there isn't really any world where their ADPS contribution to Mages is significant.
    With the boosts to pets in ToL, overall pet damage is actually a lot higher than in prior years. In raids with full Druid/Enchanter/Bard support, I generally see closer to that 60/40 DD/pet split (higher for DDs, especially with lag). If I was in a group with those classes and consistently high pet counts I'd likely see similar, but in the groups I normally run with, cumulative pet DPS (between primary pets and swarms) do generally pull ahead of DDs. That said, ignoring heavily modifiable DDs because they're only 45% of your damage rather than 51% would be pretty silly.

    I've barely played outside of raids in the past few months, but here are the mission clears I could find:
    Mag/Mag/Rng/Dru/Pal/Shm: 45% DD, 35% swarm, 20% primary pet
    Mag/Shd/Rng/Brd/Pal/Shd: 44% DD, 30% swarm, 26% primary pet

    Note that neither of those groups include an Enchanter, which is a big part of why spell DPS is so much higher in raids. Group combinations skewed towards boosting DDs will see a different mix.

    For reference, here was our last raid clear:
    Dru/Brd/Enc/Mag/Mag/Wiz: 64% DD, 19% swarm, 17% primary pet
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  16. Tucoh Augur

    I didn't know HHE didn't effect mage's primary pets, that's a pretty big deal. Thinking about it more, the attack boost that beastlords give is probably negligible due to bard buffs in hitmehard's group and Theft of Essence. So you're really just looking at the buffs to pet flurry, beastlord's synergy, group bestial alignment and Focus as far as ADPS. Also swarm pets for Mage's Of Many spell line. All in all, fairly modest ADPS impact.

    Beastlords are pretty strong on their own with a bard in the group, but require a lot of button presses to keep those spells on CD. Reconsidering hitmehard's group I think a shaman would be a superior addiiton over a beastlord
  17. Zalamyr Augur

    I didn't say it was better than bard at buffing the mage's dps. Druid is definitely better at buffing mage dps than beastlord is however. Sancus already covered it more thoroughly than I would, so I'll leave it there. Even shaman, thanks to their aura hitting our swarms, would be much stronger than a beastlord for boosting mage dps. There are certainly reasons that bst/mage should work pretty well, but buffing mage dps isn't one of them.

    I'm not arguing any setup is better than the rest. I personally like to run bard or shaman with my mage. Druid is pretty good though. Buffs mage dps notably, brings non-merc heals, attack debuffs, track, some CC/pulling tools, and very good DPS of their own.