This piece can't be highlighted enough. The difference between any heroic gearing set is marginal, at best. Anyone saying otherwise is being hyperbolic. What matters the most is having a current set of heroic augs, regardless of the stats (though I wouldn't advise focusing on heroic INT ).
The main comparison is hp/melee shielding to avoiding an entire hit via Hdex in my post. Dps increase is merely a (huge) bonus mentioned on the side honestly. The hp increase certainly would help take ae damage where avoiding a hit has nothing to do with that. I was not launching an attack on Hstm; rather comparing both of their strengths. They both have plenty of merit -- so chill out
.. except that dodge is behind the hDex modified checks and so will never amount to more then a single digit percentage of your avoidance. hAgi only helps melee classes (that can riposte/parry) via the initial miss check. For other classes, dodge improvements still matter. The melee combat system is saturated and broken as I've posted before.
Even better would be combat dummies that riposte so often and so hard that you die in the guild hall. That will expose how badly the game is tuned post level 110.
Even this is understated. The melee system is so saturated and broken, that NO gear choices matter. For a game that is predicated on Monty Haul and item acquisition, the game is in a really bad state. The introduction of heroic stats so many years ago was a life line. That life line has been called in. Game over.
it doesn't matter what defensive skill hits 100% as long as one does. It makes no difference how little it will add all that matters is how much can be added and regardless of whether you add it with dodge or riposte its the same amount added. and dodge is the easiest one to get to 100% You can increase your riposte chance after strikethrough by the exact same amount you can increase your dodge chance. Hypothetical scenario, I get attacked 1000 times and I have 60% riposte parry and dodge chance. I riposte 600, parry, 240, and dodge 96 for a total of 936 avoided attacks. I'm just gonna ignore regular strikethrough cuz it doesn't change my point. Then, I bump my riposte chance up to 70%. now i riposte 700, parry 180, and dodge 72 for a total of 952. My riposte goes back to 60% and my dodge goes up to 70% instead. I riposte 600, parry 240, and dodge 112 for a total of, you guessed it, 952. It makes no difference which skill I increase. HDex does improve both riposte and parry but that's meaningless if i can hit 100% or even just nearly 100%. if one skill is at 100%, then you are getting all the avoidance benefit you can regardless of what the others are at. which is why I say, as long as you have enough HAgi, it is the best defensive stat. Although I should point out I go HDex cuz it genuinely does add a lot of dps for knights and it is great for survivability too.
I dont think about it much and just take em as they come. SK always gets the Agi and Dex ones and the rest are tossed about to alts. Im probably 50/50 on Agi Dex augs (type 5).
You make statement that are not understandable, really, and I ask you a question, that you don't answer etc. So to others, has anyone understood " Growth buff does not come at a cost of half a tank's DPS" ? Same for "26k hp at a high cost to dps is radically different than 36k hp at nearly no cost to dps" ? No difference with avoiding a hit, but taking a hit yes. At each round, the tank has a 25 k more HP pool. So imagine the mob does a round of hits of 150 k, on any Heroic choice tank, tank A has 150 k HP, tank B has 175 k HP, one will die, the other won't.
....till tank b totally avoids the 150k hit that the hstm tank can't. But if he doesn't avoid it, yeah the hp would certainly help. You keep talking in circles and preaching to the choir with me I don't get it lol. Hstm is great for survival. So is hdex.
You meant tank A avoid the hit, anyhow HDex is less good for survival, unless it's been proven that the HDex bonus advantage gives more real parry / riposte to avoid this hit (so a real hit avoided, not a fake riposte / parry which results into a hit in reality due to mob strikethrough) We will see with parses, but the difficulty with parses will be to not just count the number of avoidance skills you have seen, because most of them are being strikethrough, so extract the ones that really worked. We need Beimeth's gameparse update because he has done yet the work on this.
The main thing I have noticed, for example, on swarm commander, when I AE agro, and get multiple mobs, I die, thats after shield block, backing up a bit to keep mobs in front and hitting a disc. When im not on a mob and cycling through ext target window, I often see sk's with multiples , of which I will grab one of theirs,but it always appears that their health isnt bouncing as drastically as mine does,with multiple mobs, maybe its just paranoia, who knows? That said, I am still buying focus ranks of AA, as I said in prior post just returning to game in June, and many probably have dragon glyph running. I may have put it out there in last post that paladins couldnt tank current raid content as well as sk's, but did not mean it to come off that way, single mobs,, no issues, whatsoever, but on multiples, maybe it seems to me that sk's stay up just a bit longer,, anyways, after your response , it got me thinking and looking over my gear ,, which is why I posted this thread for advice from those who have been in game longer without as long a break as Ive had. Who knows , maybe my healers dont like me =p Before this thread gets any farther along I would like to thank you all for your responses, and I have taken all advice to think about.
Entirely possible they've got glyphs running. I try to time it so that when I'm likely to wind up tanking 2 to 3 or 4 mobs that I've either got glyph or revered guardian running + armor of the inquisitor. That's also when I'll switch from trying to do more damage and threat into full spam heal mode. Our healing crew also knows that I am likely to wind up with extra threat on pulls because not everyone is as fast with threat gen, so they focus me a little harder during those phases. I can't speak for every guild, but in mine the tanks that tend to do more of the heavy lifting also wind up on the extended target of a bunch of out of group healers, since if that tank goes down the odds of wiping increase dramatically. Unlike the warriors we don't usually run with enough knights to have ever mobs that knights are tanking have an assigned backup. For NSC if you're talking about the very begining pull, I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with deflection, then using shield block to roll through the gap between when deflection falls off and you can click your next disc. (I always assume I'll get that intermittent lag between one disc ending and being able to start the next) If deflection is about to end and I've still got more mobs than I can survive I'll also throw a reminder out on voice chat for the other tanks to pick their mobs up. Nothing too aggressive just "hey, I've currently got #3-8 on extended target. Could people please grab a couple of those before flash runs out". A well timed deflection on pull can help smooth a lot of raids out this expansion. On Close the Gate I generally save mine for the second wave, I throw hallowed on them as they spawn, they run at me and then other tanks peel off and I get to kiting my mob so we don't get HP locked. If you need advice for how I handle cooldown timers / etc on any specific raids feel free to reach out. I know how overwhelming it can be coming back, I returned during late mid-late ToV after having not played since OoW.
From experience I'm guessing they are running discs, stacking reavers when up, epic, bond on everything they can, maybe glyph in there. Don't forget Geomantra for the AE if you certain mobs in camp when you don't want them.
Thren, our stats are pretty comparable. I have tanked multiple on swarm commander and not died. I do not use glyphs on that fight. I am sure you are just reading too much into it. Pretty similar to stories above. I came back in November after 10 years. I do cycle my discs effectively during the fight though. I have also had 2 or 3 before at once.
Heroic Dex. The DPS lost by going hSta is nowhere close to offset by an additional 20khp. The growth argument is stupid. A better argument would be if growth lowered your dps by 25% while it was on. If that were true, growth would be basically a dead line.
There's an error in your logic here as you miss a key factor. When you increase your Riposte with Hdex your Parry also increases at the same time. This means your example here to show the equivalency of the 2 Hstats fails to account for the other boosts it gives, another part is Defensive procs. Hdex gives those more chance to fire off which further helps mitigation for the classes using them. My next point will be anecdotal but it's still relevant. 2 tanks in our guild both have all their AAs and both were geared up fro the last expansion witht he difference being that tank A was raiding with us last xpac and the other was only group eared. Our loot council gears up a few tanks in new Xpacs and since they award the pieces to the person who had the worst piece oru previously group geared tank got his new ToL t1 gear first. He was sporting full Hsta and swore by it but he even geared was going down a lot. Tank A was a mix of some Hsta and the rest Hdex. In lesser gear he was staying up much better, they were goin over the discs and rotations and guy B still kept going down a lot more. Finally he changed his augs to what the first guy was wearing and he stopped going down so much. We are tight on healers usually but when push comes to shove it seems the mixed tank is better than the Hsta maxed tank. Most raids probably have enough heals to compensate for the difference but I would suggest going mixed. Take it for what you will, as for me I will mix mine.
I do account for parry and riposte being boosted by HDex. it doesn't matter that HDex improves two, all that matters is that one skill reaches 100% and dodge is the easiest one to get to 100%
you say you accounted for it but your numbers don't seem to. you bumped riposte up to 70 you did not bump parry up to 70.
