Shocked any business would choose to destroy itself.

I don't know if this is allowed to be posted here or not which is why I didn't include it. But thanks! This is what is needed by Daybreak Games (Darkpaw). This is one simple example of one of the gaming companies doing this. Almost all other MMO companies state their stance as well, I can provide a list of links but I don't know if it's allowed here to do that.

Benito, for some reason you're not getting it. You're trying to read into something that isn't there.

I'm simply asking for the community to come together to get the gaming company to provide their stance on the use of key mirroring software (aka Input Broadcasting Software) and place it some where that everyone can easily find it.

That article doesn't define specific software, it describes specific functionality.

We aren't talking about a negotiation, were talking about software terms of service. The current lack of clarity in Daybreak's terms allows them to terminate accounts subjectively and on a whim. What I linked is how a real company with a real legal team handles this.

The general limits of functionality are described here:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/

Why should Daybreak handicap or paint themselves in a corner when the cheat crowd already actively pursues tactics to evade the rules?

Define the intent behind this statement if you can. I see it as subjective and applicable to broadcasting software.

Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed.

Ah yes, the nuclear option that the automators always fall back on: make others violators of rules.

To be honest, I'm not surprised by the agenda:

Ariana - Forum account created 7 April 2022.
Feedback - Forum account created 20 April 2022.

1. Conflate, equivocate, convolute, obfuscate.
2. Poison the well.
3. Go Scorched Earth.

Well, the more clear and precise DBG are, the more help they can get from players who were banned/suspended from being an unlucky false positive(yes they exist).
We had someone from our guild get a permaban because of something his ISP did, somehow triggered their VPN detection. It took months before DBG finally figured it out, and until then all the info he got was "violation of TOS".

Being more clear and precise, would have made a constructive dialogue more likely, and would have helped DBG finding the issue sooner.

What does my account age have to do with my argument? Are you saying there isn't any ambiguity in that statement? If you don't see that as applying to broadcasting and I do, can you understand how that is a point that should be clarified? Why are you shifting the discussion away from the actual substance of what is being discussed?

There has been zero evidence presented that key broadcasters are getting suspended en masse. While it is feasible that there are a few false positives ("automation software not installed"), I have yet to see any hard evidence.

There is no discussion to be had until key underlying assumptions are verified: i.e. key broadcasters are affected.

There is much more benefit for the pro-cheat side to continue with the "we're the good guys" narrative to validate their self-interests. The disproportionate reaction towards using key broadcasters to overthrow the rules betrays the agenda here.

Benito, please stop trying to:

1. Conflate, equivocate, convolute, obfuscate.
2. Poison the well.
3. Go Scorched Earth.


You are now purposely derailing this message thread. This message thread is about the company destroying itself because they have a lack of clear rules on the use of Input Broadcasting Software.

With clear rules on the use of Input Broadcasting Software players know where they stand. They know whether or not it's allowed. As it is right now, May 7th, 2022 there is no clear post from the gaming company on whether or not this is allowed. This is what we need to reduce the company from destroying itself.

The disproportionate reaction over a "few false positives" (again, no hard evidence that this is a case) to overthrow the current rules betrays the pro-cheat/pro-automation agenda underlying your framing of the discourse.

You are seeking to legitimize the claim that key broadcasters are getting hit and delegitimize the current rules regime. This supports the self-interest of automators.

What evidence do you require? How can someone provide evidence to you? Whether you believe someone got suspended for only using Input Broadcasting Software or not is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. You are not able to provide any evidence to the contrary.

Once again, I have to keep reminding you, we're not discussing what you want to keep bringing into the conversation, automation.

We're discussing the lack of clear rules on the use of Input Broadcasting Software and the confusion around it. Without clear rules on this subject the confusion leads to misinterpretation of the motivations of others. Confused support staff and their understanding of what is meant by "cheating".

If the use of Input Broadcasting Software is determined by the staff at Daybreak to be "cheating" then they should state that. If it's allowed, it should be stated.

The veracity of the claim that key broadcasters (with "no automation software installed") are getting hit by false positives is at the heart of the debate.

If key broadcasters are not getting hit or a few key broadcasters who also happen to have automation or autofire software installed are, then you are vainly advocating the delegitimization of the current rules.

Why would you be playing into automators' hands by having people doubt the rules unless you stand to benefit by the doubt?

Agreed. Rules should be clearly defined. Anything else inevitably leads to needless misunderstandings.

And those who want to avoid playing the game as intending by automating their gameplay should still be shown the door.

Cheaters don't care. This debate over the specificity of rules (which in itself can be subjective) is meant to delegitimize the rules.

Some cheaters continue to cite Rizlona as allowing automation yet look how specific and clear Daybreak was:

You're still going on about automation - it's a given that it's not allowed, never has, never will be allowed!

The title of this message thread is "Shocked any business would choose to destroy itself." and the first post refers to people that got suspended. None of it includes any reference nor does it indicate anything at all to automation.

I'm asking the community to come together to get the gaming company to provide a stance on Input Broadcasting Software. This will cut down drastically on the confusion on this topic.

I know there is nothing I can state nor do to provide evidence to you that I ONLY USED INPUT BROADCASTING SOFTWARE and received a 7 day suspension! Therefore I know because I researched, asked questions waited 48 hours for a canned response for things already shown in the terms of service. I already know what the rules are except there is no clear stance on the use of INPUT BROADCASTING SOFTWARE. That's all I used!

If I only use INPUT BROADCASTING SOFTWARE and didn't receive any suspension and saw others on the forums stating that's all they did, I would also like you, NOT BELIEVE IT! But THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I CAN DO TO PROVIDE YOU THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE ASKING FOR! NOTHING AT ALL! The only thing I can do is ask everyone to come together to ask the gaming company to provide their stance. Because from my point of view it appears there is confusion on everyone's part including the help desk on the use of INPUT BROADCASTING SOFTWARE!

Not by me. And please don't speak for me. Rules which are not carefully laid out tend to lead to confusion. It's true in-game and out. And while grey areas will always seem to jump out at times, the benefits of clarity are, for most, rather obvious.

And, once again, I hope cheaters are sent packing.

To be honest, real countries have clearly stated laws, it seems to work out for them. As a captured lawbreaker you also get told exactly which law you have broken, and enough information/evidence to defend yourself in case of genuine mistakes. You are also told how long the punishment will last(no surprise additions to the punishment).

I kinda like that system.

I get that DBG doesn't have the resources for running a "trial system" like that. But there is probably a realistic compromise between such a system and what DBG is doing currently.
The fact that we get "repeat offenders", means that not everyone gets enough information to correct their playstyle into something DBG approves.

The problem with DBG being vague means that honest players are getting paranoid, when they see statements like "I was banned for using broadcasting software, and it doesn't go against the stated rules". Im not saying all those claims are truthful(I simply don't know), but they are repeated a lot. Im sure some official clarification would ease a lot of player's minds. If nothing else, then just to stop the rumors.

Automation software is NOT ALLOWED! Never has been! Never will be! I don't quite understand why you want to keep talking about it? It's clearly defined here:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/
The sentence "programs that automate movement or actions in the game are not allowed."

What's not stated is the use of Input Broadcasting Software. This is why some support staff don't know or maybe they all are on the same page, we have no idea, are handing out 7 day suspensions for the use of Input Broadcasting Software.

At the same link https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/
is this sentence: Software that assists in allowing a few or less people to monopolize an area is not allowed.
Does this mean the use of Input Broadcasting Software is not allowed? It's anyone's guess as to what it means. It also leads to interpretation and only some people will get 7 day suspensions depending on the support staff that handles the suspensiosn.

By including a simple one sentence to that link to include the stance on Input Broadcasting Software, we all know where we stand.