With zone copies being a thing, why is there still such a raging hate against boxing on tle servers?

Not talking about the automaters, just talking about normal boxing. Why such hate towards it and forcing true box into the new servers?

Now that agent of change is the norm, who cares about boxing?

You're not allowed to have fun the wrong way.

There's really isn't, the forums exaggerate the situation.

That said I have often felt like pick limits are a little too high.

The Devs probably don't want to go back to how it was in the early TLP days with the 6+ Box Mage armies around every corner.

Of course this was all before Pick zones as you mentioned.

Me personally I'd love to see a traditional TLP server without Truebox. There will obviously be those around that overdo it (I mean hell, even on current Truebox TLP's they still do it).

As long as you legit box, i have zero issues with it - If you need to use stuff like [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] or even worse 3rd party programs, you are just pathetic. They'll likely never admit it, because [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] is extensively used on live servers, but it IS against the rules of the ToS. I wish they would implement some kind of IP lock on TLPs, making it possible for casual people to box from one machine - The cheaters are running excessive VMs anyway and already bought their truebox circumvent programs a long time ago - It only hurts regular casual people, that like being able to do things by boxing a couple toons.

Picks are not a perfect solution, they are often not scaled properly for how many players they can actually support. There are still plenty of conflicts between groups and a scarcity of resources.

because everyones collective epeen shrinks each time someone enjoys the game a way that doesn't fit their personal belief on how this game should be enjoyed

I think the psychological term is "relative deprivation". People feel deprived if their experience feels less than other people's experience. As an example, consider a 10k race where some of the participants are on roller skates. On the one hand we can say that the runners shouldn't care since everyone is doing their own race, but the runners may resent the roller skaters for being able to finish first easier.

Part of the attraction of a game like EQ is the community aspect. For that to really work, the community needs to feel that everyone is playing on a level field and they're all in it together. If one person is playing a single character and another player is playing a 12-box crew, that feeling of community is diminished. Someone with a boxing crew likely enjoys the feeling of being at the top of the community and not see it as a problem. The boxer likely feels something like "relative superiority", in that they are doing better than most of the community. But I imagine that even the current crop of boxers might feel slighted if there were crews which had 10x or 100x the number of boxes they did and were blowing through content, getting all the loot, selling massive amount of items for discount prices, etc. The person with the 12-box crew might feel like there's no way to compete with someone who has 120 or 1200 boxes.

All those people running 54 man box armies also have 54 forum accounts.You're cutting into their Krono profits when you camp for your own gear.

Most players don't really care about boxers. I imagine a box server generates way less revenue because being self sufficient means you're not buying speed, haste, and clarity pots.

You're asking two different questions. For the first, I agree with those who state that the antipathy against normal boxing is very much overstated on these forums. If you want to run a 3-box or a 6-box crew, feel free. I personally two-box on Aradune.

Truebox wasn't created to stop normal boxing. It was created to at least curtail the 50+ box automated crews, which have previously overrun other servers without the Truebox restriction. The activity is 110% RMT-driven. A TLP server launched anywhere in the Classic era but without Truebox would be DOA in the first 90 days because there wouldn't be just a few 50+ box crews, there would be hundreds of them. You would very likely be constantly queued to login because there would be so many automated crews.

Many of us have been arguing for a long time that Truebox restrictions are no longer necessary once the game reaches instanced content and the RMT crowd has left the server since they can no longer make money there. Finally (!), DPG has seen the light, and we have reasonable relaxation rules for these new servers at the appropriate juncture. It still cannot be done in the Classic era because human nature.

Bernel's response is spot on.

• Rarely do I encounter someone in the world being mad that I am boxing. If anything, most people send a tell and ask for any rots or if they can leach xp (which I'm down for). The only "toxicity" I see towards boxers are forum fighters.
• People assume boxing automatically makes someone a god that smites the casual family player by harassing and camp stealing. In my experience I generally see far more harassment from the truebox loving neckbeard than I do from any box crew.
• People don't like feeling as if their experience is lesser than another's.
• People assume boxing is an insta-win path to full best in slot when in reality it takes a lot of learning, patience, and time investment.
• People assume boxing is making massive impacts on the server economy when it is far from the truth. Most box crews focus on their own characters and honestly don't care about the majority of players. We mostly want to be left alone and are generally super chill to work things out. CaptainKrono botting ~100 accounts farming plat 24/7 actually is the economic problem.
• People assume truebox prevents bot armies. See CaptainKrono above. The reality is truebox just empowers CaptainKrono.
• The reality is they tried to fix box armies by adding a system (truebox) that only damages the majority of players wanting to add a few more characters into their arsenal. CaptainKrono and the like are still going to bot, still going to avoid truebox restrictions, still gonna warp to and from their camps, still going to buy up krono and RMT them so they can pay their bills, and they are still never going to be banned.

Discussing truebox, boxing and botting (add whatever else) is always going to be a joke until whoever polices this game actually steps up and enforces their rules. We all know that will never happen in any logical way so I bet you any amount of money, plat and/or krono that these upcoming servers will be plagued by the same guys botting the same camps in the same zones and nothing will happen to them.

Funny that experience was never really felt on Rizlona. People, for the most part, respected each other's camps and time.

Someone at a camp? Np, there are 30+ in the zone so I will open my own pick or get a buddy to help spawn a pick.

Need a raid target? Np, I will open my own with AoC by myself or with a friend.

I can say the experience felt very different on the truebox servers I have played

I have done 3-6 boxing on prior servers, mainly because I got tired of going LFG and spending half my playtime looking or piecing a group together just to have no camps be open.

That said - it also dehumanizes the game. In the social game - a character = a person. When everyone is boxing, it breaks that symmetry and objectifies characters. People just have a visceral reaction to that.


Getting hate for boxing is legit. While 2 or 3 boxing and minding my own business - I've had people intentionally train me, use profanity, tell me I was cheating, attempt to KS me, 'threaten' to record and report me, follow me for hours, accuse me of being a 'krono lord', and all sorts of other crappy behavior.

You realize they did launch exactly this server two years ago and none of what you described happened?

Not DoA, in fact one of the most staying servers in TLP history.

No hundreds of 50 man box crews running around.

Less RMT than any other TLP I've played on. Sure, a few players are into that. Most aren't.

And, no queue after the first day.

History has shown you are incorrect on everything you say would happen.

You can't even buy a Krono on this server if you want to. None for sale at all in Baz on Rizlona. But RMT haven for sure

Nice post. I would like to add. I have boxed many times before, and I almost never bought and sold into from other players in the bazaar. So there are some boxers that never have any impact on the in game economy.

Rizlona wasn't advertised as a non-Truebox server, it was specifically advertised as a BOXING server, alongside another server at the same time which was not only Truebox, but limited to two toons per player no matter what. So where do you think almost all of the RMT crowd went for that cycle? Yep, to Aradune, where the toxicity was amped up to the max. Lots of people were thumbing their noses at the Aradune ruleset and openly 6+ boxing with cheat software, which further protected Rizlona from the behavior I've described. Did you play on Aradune at launch? I did, and it was not pleasant at all.

Launching a non-Truebox server in Classic without the mirror boxing-encouraged server along side it would be a compete repeat of the disastrous Aradune launch, and I guarantee you they aren't going to make that mistake again.

THAT'S what you're going to hang your hat on?

Ok. Sure.

From the announcement:

If that's not advertising a non-Truebox server, I don't know what would be. Aradune has Truebox in the title, Rizlona does not. It doesn't take a genius to be able to realize what they mean by that.

You are arguing a distinction without a difference. Everyone understood exactly what Rizlona was and was not.

What in the world would be the difference between a "non-Truebox server" and a "boxing-encouraged server"?

"Rizlona BOXED Dedicated progression server"

They could have said "non-Truebox", but they didn't. And by your own admission, that's straight out of the announcement.

You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with the company. They're the ones you have to persuade. Given how long it took to get to this point, well, good luck with that.

That's funny. I am not trying to argue anything with Daybreak. I'm perfectly fine playing on my non-truebox server that they gave me after years and years of us requesting a non-truebox server.