EverQuest Producer's Letter April 2022

Welp, there's a literal /trade chat that is often selling loot rights to raid drops... sometimes it's legit guilds... aaaannnnddd sometimes it's box armies.... they also tend to sell PL and AA. Come on man, you'd have to be blind to deny it exists.

Im sorry maybe this is a disconnect between the TLP community and Live here but how are these players affecting your game time? In fact i dont see this any differently than having free trade. Having loot for sale in many varieties is an amazing service on servers that players struggle to catch up due to no drop. Some players dont have the time to commit but still want to be part of the race. Its not different than buying goods from bazaar. The massive pinata loot / free trade servers were absolutely booming markets. Some random guys selling no trade stuff is not killing the market....sorry

I never said they dont exist. They just arent competitive with anyone on the server and i dont see these players ever in front of me keeping me from completing my own goals.

You wrote on post #114

They are there, clearly it's a contentious issue and there have been a series of banwaves... Now, you're changing your line of argument to claim... well first was NEVER... now they're their but they don't BOTHER... both positions are FALSE... and you're line of attack is disingenuous.

REALLY? There are full box groups that pull ENTIRE ZONES IN SEVERAL PICKS selling PAID PL. and dominate those zones for hours, day in and day out. Do you think people complain because they just happen to "see" a boxed group? Is this the criteria now? They can pull unfair shenanigans that benefit them but no one else... and we shouldn't notice or let it bother us?

There have been times when the entire Unrest basement, Lower Guk, Velks were completely cleared repeatedly by paid PL services. Once the bans kicked in, some legit groups had at least a chance to lvl. But there are times it's been ridiculously bad... and that's the cause for the negative sentiment. I mean sometimes you can't even get into an AA farming group because you have to PAY for a spot because the zone is controlled by these professional monetized game-killing idiots.

Again, i never said they dont exist but they they may as well not exsist since they never interfere with my game play. Seems now you are talking about boxing. Before we were talking about 36 man armies, whom largely wouldnt be in an exp zone in the first place. It doesnt take much to pull an entire zone of light blues. You make it sound like this game play is disruptive when in fact those pulling those zones are in zones no one exps in anyways. The Deep. PoInn. ..

Like i said before. Maybe this is a disconnect between TLP and live. I dont play on Live anymore. On TLPs we dont have any issues with what you are talking about that would interfere with normal game play. We have pick zones to move around if we run into a group at a camp we want too.

Ive been able to cleared entire zones of light blues in velks too, its a great place to PL. I dont see anything wrong with using your class make up to its full potential. They already nerfed the hell out of enchanters, what do you want now?

I always AA grind in good zones, not off light blues. SO i have no clue what you are talking about in that regard. If you want to pay for a PL its your right. I dont see anything wrong with it, since these zones are not in progression content and are generally light blue mobs.

On Ragefire there was no box limit and we saw the result. 36 toon armies announcing they were taking camps and doing it. Until the pick changes were made, the same boxers were also stealing every pick if they could. The single group boxers are almost never a problem. As some have commented above, they act like parts of the community, not bullies. How to allow the one and avoid the other is the issue. The relaxed boxing rule sounds like a fair idea later in the servers. I understand that real enforcement takes manhours and costs money, so we have what we have. As far as the cheaters who hide in instances and sell loot rights without imposing on open world camps, eh meh.

Lets see what the text ACTUALLY says:

Open at level 40 with expansions up to Gates of Discord unlocked
Four weeks later: level 50 unlocks
Two weeks later: level 55 unlocks
Four weeks later: level 60 unlocks along with expansions up to Prophecy of Ro

So we get relaxed truebox WHEN PoR lauches... 4 weeks til lvl increase to 50, then another 2 weeks to 55 and another 4 to lvl 60 where PoR opens... 4 + 2 + 4 = 10 weeks... not "only 6 weeks"

Ragefire brought along the mage nerf, the agro to owner of pet nerf and the boss buff "nerf"... which pretty much made huge mage armies a non-issue outside of a few bug abusers i ToV

The nerfs made it harder for mage or necro only boxes to kill dragons and a few bosses. It had little effect on box armies killing non MotM content.

Box armies killing end game raid targets at a competitive level was the problem. We love picking our favorite team and finishing raids with teamwork to see who gets there first. Box armies threw a wrench in that. Outside of that who cares about non MotM content. Long as players are being polite and not in the way of progression were good. They have rules in place preventing box armies from monopolizing exp zones. I think we are in a good place on that.

Unfortunately, the nerf to pets, charm, and addition of MoTM really damaged the caster crowd for most of the popular era of TLPs.

https://i.imgur.com/dlkcPKk.gif

No... you did say NEVER... as in, they DON'T EXIST. But, it's fine that you want to amend the admission that yes, there are players who have been abusing boxing mechanics.

We're discussing the ABUSE of the mechanics of boxing which give some players distinct advantage over others in clear violation of the spirit of gameplay as elucidated in the terms of the EULA. 36-box armies potentially being the worst iteration since they clear raid zones and monetize the selling of loot-rights. Which, ALONE isn't problematic... it's ONLY a problem where a zone is dominated by loot-sellers, PL-sellers... in my view, or on True-Box designated servers. Clearly full box raids are rare, and the ability of them to dominate and preclude other's from a pick isn't as likely as other smaller box groups who monetize their services. I'm not trying to make a rant AGAINST boxing or even selling loot-rights, PL,AA... that's part of the game. It's just the NEGATIVITY occurs when there is aggressive domination of a leveling space that precludes others from fair gameplay who don't WANT to pay for services.

Yes you do. I saw it on Mangler, and Coirnav, and on Aradune.

Personally, on a server where boxing is allowed... it shouldn't matter what people pay for or sell... loot-rights, PL, AA's, items. I'm really not anti-boxing. I'm anti the ABUSES of boxing which do exist... and have at times been far worse and more noticeable than others. I think DB is doing something about it... or we'd be in a far worse condition... as in some other games.

The key is, there's a legit way to do things that doesn't monopolize whole zones for monetized profit. So long as we can join our own raid instance and get our own loots... It shouldn't matter if another raid or box raid is selling loot rights. The key is BALANCE...

So that EVERYBODY has a fair shot to play the game as intended. I didn't want to argue the point about boxing, because it's a fine line. I wanted to correct the FALSE CLAIM that boxers haven't ABUSED boxing mechanics on TLPs... because they HAVE... Most banwaves... have stopped the worst abuses... so honestly DB's approach has been decent. My whole contradiction was based on the denial... but I do get your point... FOR THE MOST PART... it's perfectly fine, no one gets hurt... just because boxer's sell a service in-game... it's simply the DOMINATION of zones by toxic and aggressive profiteers that needs to be moderated... and that is my only point and the reason you will hear any negativity on the subject. Personally I don't see it as a big problem... but it always has the potential to be.

I never once seen a player boxing 36+ characters on those servers, aside from Rizlona. Any conversation about it was hearsay. People say sometimes they heard x player was doing so but often times its multiple people playing 6 or 12 box working toward a goal as a small guild structure. Basing opinions on hearsay is no way to move forward.Ive been part of such guilds before and we had members accused of carrying 54 boxes when it was 15 people playing random assortments of boxes. Just because you see someone selling raid loot and heard someone say hes a 54 boxers , doesnt mean that is what is going on.... its stupid hard to manage that many toons. Even with Rizlona rules. We often sold any extra no trades our guild didnt need. It wasnt our primary motive for playing the game, but that didnt hold back rude players from slinging mud.

I am not trying to protect any players that are in the realm of cheating. I am just here to show how a few loud players are conflating ones personal opinion into a server wide problem on hearsay. Ive played all those servers in middle tier guilds and top guilds and these topics were never on our boards unless we were looking for a PL or item our guild couldnt get. I had zero problems finding groups and earning raid loot. None of these "Problems" you describe were actual problems that interfere with our guilds normal progression during my game time on those servers. Its all instance based and pick zone content! How much more could you want. You want to go back to Lguk waiting all day for a group and log out because all the camps were taken that day?? You all have it EASY now.

Someone PLing in a zone full of light blues is NOT stopping you from progressing either. You can pick another zone to level your ALT rather than complain that someone is killing all the light blues instead of you being able to doing it. No one is PLing in any relevent zones , in era on these servers. Mass pulling pofire ? Nope. Mass pulling griegs end in era? seen it once from a top guild, to many groups in zone they left after 1 hour. Where are these mythical zones that plers and 36 armies are holding you back so they can sell you raid loot?

Back in the day every zone was so full you had to exp off guards. Today we complain when our alt cant get exp in our favorite zone....How much of Everquest will you change before you are happy with the results? I believe its never ending.

Getting rid of cheaters is a great idea, if you want to stay on topic of that fine. Tossing in PLing, selling loot, and "Box armies" only confuses the topic with hearsay and personal emotion confused by bias. if it gets out of hand it could be a problem in the future but currently the idea of them having ruined TLPs is a farce and mislead by BS rumor.

It's not possible for any player to "prove" anything... nice slippery slope... but pretending there weren't mass complaints and negativity is dishonest. Why would people be complaining about a thing that didn't even exist? The main point isn't even about boxing as I've clarified... it's about abuses of boxing mechanics, especially on true box servers.

Your answer is first denial, and then, strangely, how we should all LIKE it because we can pay for a PL instead of leveling up ourselves... Sorry, but most don't see that as "playing a game."

Been talked and debated to death actually... where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Just because I'm not an employee of DBG doesn't mean I haven't personally seen the exact shenanigans on this, and other threads. And just because the player's can't PROVE something, doesn't make is mere "hearsay." We've had banwaves for a reason... most of them due to AGGRESSIVE, MONETIZED, PROFESSIONAL COMPANIES... boxing an army of alts... ESPECIALLY on true box servers.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/aradune-overboxing-not-enforced.273644/page-9

Link to recent mass complaints? I feel like DB has done a great job in recent TLP past. Several of the big boxer groups that play on these servers are very active members of the community on public discord channels and well liked. Where is the server disruption you speak of? Why would it be allowed to continue server after server? You are speaking hearsay nonsense. Everytime you see someone sell LR , PL, or box more characters than you than the opinion is immediately they are destroying the server! Effort is rewarded in Everquest. Try applying more instead of shaking your fist at those that are putting in maximum amount.

Still waiting to find out who the 36+ boxer is thats played on the past tlps.

Okay so you're refuted from the initial claim that NEVER are boxing shenanigans seen on truebox TLPs... to "yeah they are but,,, PROVE it"... which no player can... and now not just boxing shenaniagns but 36-box... and also... WHO... like an ordinary player would have access to that info...

and now you demand... "RECENT mass complaints"...

1. I successfully refuted your claim of NEVER.
2. I discussed with you the reasons for player negativity towards boxing WHILE DEFENDING legit boxing.
3. I showed you there is a history of boxing abuses on truebox TLPs, from a forum link... DESPITE SAYING DB HAS BEEN CONTROLLING THE SITUATION SUCCESSFULLY...

And all you do is just stubbornly kick out the goal post farther and to more ludicrous levels. I never said abuse of boxing was a major problem. I said it has, in fact, in refutation of the claim of NEVER, actually been a problem which created negativity towards boxing.. I said it's being appropriately controlled but always remains a potential problem. I'm totally done having this convo with you it's just going in nonproductive circles and hence pointless. Good day.

Absolutely ridiculous. Why on earth do you all find it acceptable to continue releasing two TLP servers at the same time and making both Truebox? You're literally costing yourselves money by doing this.

I considered playing again when the new TLP's launched, but only if one were released without the limitations of Truebox. Unfortunately that is not the case. Making players wait a certain amount of time for a "relaxed Truebox" is completely asinine. What is the point of this? It truly makes zero sense. There are a lot of people out there that have the same thoughts on Truebox as I do. We do not want to be forced to buy multiple machines to box, to take up more space in our homes for computers/equipment, to increase our electric bills to run said machines, and among other inconveniences associated with running multiple machines.

You will not stop the mega boxers with Truebox. It's well known that there are still people running 6, 12, 18, 24, 36 and even 60+ accounts at once on Truebox servers. They will always find a way and it will not be stopped. All you're doing is punishing the player base that plays odd hours and cannot regularly find groups, who likes to not have to rely on spending hours/days/weeks trying to recruit help to do quest that takes a group to complete, that doesn't want to waste a groups time by joining when they only have an hour to play, or they have to go afk several times throughout their gaming time. There are so many scenarios and reasons why people box.

I recently re-activated 6 accounts (paid with funds, and not krono) on a live server to kind of get used to playing again and get everything setup in preparation for the new TLP's in hopes that one would be a non-truebox. I will certainly cancel at least 3 of them immediately, and may just cancel all 6 depending on if I want to mess around on a live server. Certainly not wasting my money, time, and space on multiple computers.

I am in the same situation. A TLP with no Truebox (or at least, with only relaxed Truebox) would have probably brought me back. Now my choices are cheating with a notebook for 2nd account, or not coming back. I will (sadly) opt for the second, I don't want to risk to be banned.
Maybe next year...

so if 36 people is behind those 36 toons and does the same thing then it is all peachy with you since it is not boxing....?

since in the case of TLP all accounts are paid for... so EACH account has equally as much right as ALL other accounts... boxed or not... or do you think YOU are worth more? do you pay more than they do?

but since the raid targets are all instanced now... how does it affect you? aah right it doesn't... and exp zones? ooh /picks is something to fix that too.