Devs: Please Enable "Relaxed True Box" on All TLPs in Omens+ Content

1 Active boxing TLP vs like 6 TrueBox servers. Dilute the pool for boxing TLPs and you'd have a bunch of dead boxing TLPs too.

Server population =/= higher player base. If a bot is logged in 24 hours a day it's gonna move the needle 12x what a person playing 2 hours is. Yet it's not even gonna drive 10% of the revenue. Rizlona is dead and has been dead since classic. Aradune still has a dozen guilds with 50+ active players clearing current content.

@magician9001 You seem to be operating from the assumption that the biggest beneficiaries of this type of box change would be the people who do full box teams, but the majority of them are more than likely using 3pp to bypass the limitation anyway.

The people who still form groups with people are more likely to care about this change and they DO help keep the server alive.

But what do I know, I single box.

You just making up numbers lol? Both medium on a Monday at 10am. Kinda sad population for Rizlona tbh.. maybe that ban/suspension wave is effecting the numbers since we all know Rizlona is plagued with cheaters.

And now, the situation is flipped. Rizlona is in the middle of the 70's stretch and is one of the four highest pop servers in all of EQ, one of the few that still hits high pop every night, something that has never happened before on a TLP during dodh or later. Aradune is following the usual trend and hasn't hit high pop at all in the last week despite a brand new expansion.

https://eqresource.com/serverhistory.php?server=Rizlona&range=1d

No TLP has ever been consistently high pop in DODH before.

That's cute, the guy who interviewed people from multiple servers who play TLPs past TBS about True Boxing, ALSO documents TLP server pops during the 70's stretch. You are something else!

Is this suppose to be impressive though? Its literally the only boxing TLP. Imagine if the TLP boxing community was split across 6 different active servers. That's what you are comparing your one boxing TLP to.

The fact that the server isn't always high, while literally being the only boxing TLP possible, shows its really not in a massive demand like the people who begged for the server made it out to be.

Let's not pretend this has anything to do with truebox, or the lack their of, other than the fact that you guys haven't had a new boxing server in 2 years. If DPG released a new boxing server your pop would tank just as quickly as the truebox populations have, and if DPG only released new truebox servers every 3 years their populations would have stayed high through those expansions as well. It's about options, boxers have none.

I agree with your sentiment with the addition of the following observation. I played a bit on Aradune to see if it was as bad as 'some people' in the forum were making it out to be. In my experience it was a pretty good server with lots of decent people. Certainly nothing like the apocryphatic "End of all civilization" way they characterized it.

So people don't have to go back and search 20 years of posts by me. I am against the RMT market because it does lead to bad behavior. This in and of itself would not be a bad thing except DBG doesn't appear to have the ability to police the game. I'm also against people violating the TOS in that if it is a Truebox server, that is the end of the argument. I don't box on Agnarr for instance or anywhere else it is forbidden/restricted.

Lot's of people doing the hard sell on this. They use their opinions as facts, ad homonym attacks, omit relevant facts, logical fallacies like appeal from authority. Makes me wonder what their motive is.

Nobody plays on boxing servers.

The idea that retroactively relaxing truebox will be the origin story of everyone 40 boxing is laughable. Live servers haven't had any boxing restrictions in over a decade, is everyone there 40 boxing? They even have ftp so wouldn't have to sub their 40 man army and still don't do it. OW progression continues to exist past PoP sure, but more characters logged in will spawn more picks which helps move it along and by week 2 its a moot point. When people discuss OW they mean raid targets the zerg guilds battle against every couple days. Mirgaul's 2 biggest flaws were no AoC and having truebox. They retroactively added AoC to it (and live servers and Ragefire). This is no different. I'd argue AoC is a bigger core rule than truebox. Aradune can keep its (mostly unenforced) 2 box rule, but now people could do that on a single pc. Perhaps Mischief is still too popular to have relaxed rules in OoW? Is Thornblade? Maybe the relaxed rules dont kick in until later expac retroactively so it's not so jarring for those 2 servers, but it should absolutely happen.

Make it happen! And put the AoC in Riftseekers while your at it!

No thank you. If you want to box go to Rizlona , Live or Magefire.

Rizlona is not a good comparison. Original OP is not asking for No True Box from Classic. I fully support Relaxed True Box in later expansions but I declined to play on Rizlona where there were no constraints at all from Day 1. Perhaps if there had been regular releases of multi-boxing TLP servers all along, I might have considered Rizlona (though I myself can barely two box.) But given it was the first (and remains only) TLP in years to allow/encourage multi-boxing, I knew it was going to attract a higher concentration of problematic large boxers and a casual boxer like me wouldn't have fit the culture. I enjoy playing with other people and Rizlona was primed to be a server for those who prefer to play solo. A server that starts with True Box and gradually relaxes those rules will not attract the same crowd that Rizlona did. It's disingenuous to insist that Rizlona would have been a good fit for anyone who wants to box or that it was the TLP communities one shot at showing support for boxing and it's failure indicates TLPers prefer True Box.

Let's stay on topic forum. Rizlona's success or failure is irrelevant. It did not have the same ruleset being proposed here.

Melusine the Siren
Mischief, Aradune, Selos, Lockjaw

Liren Lockheart
Vulak'Aerr

https://eqresource.com/serverhistory.php?server=Rizlona&range=1d

See the links on EQ resource. I went and checked 7 days because I am not a paying member there to get there 30 days. The numbers are not made up and are checked pretty often and there is even a heat map for hours per day.

Click around on that site. It's pretty nice. The EQ devs are even on their discord.

No thank you. If you want to not box go to everything else.

You don't get people 40 boxing on live servers only because the content doesn't require it. A few years ago when they gave away free heroic characters, a lot of macaroni boxers popped kronos to get free heroics and automated their way to 115. So the extent of the infestation was made very clear. Every 85+ leveling zone was littered with these piles of 6 characters pulling one mob at a time whenever it entered their camp radius. Some guy put his new pile of bots at rotdogs and snakes in house of thule and left them there for weeks. He killed 1 rotdog or snake at a time until his bots were nearing level 100, hogging the camp from any legit players. Even to this day I can log into RoS Overthere and find piles of 6 characters sitting completely still until a mob roams past the camp radius.

Ever since a certain website offered a user-friendly launcher for their cheat program, any server without truebox has been an open invitation to cheat. Because Darkpaw would probably fold if they lost the expansion sales generated by these bots, true box TLPs are the only escape from these "players."

Or, maybe he's someone like me who has been doing TLPs off and on for over 10 years and is just reporting what he has observed? As one of the few people to run a TLP literally from start to live, I can tell you what he is saying has largely been true, and is representative of at least 4 major TLP cycles that I've participated in.

By the way you are also incorrect that there is only one boxing TLP--Ragefire is also a boxing TLP. I played on Ragefire/Lockjaw for many years, and when they launched, they also were not the only boxing TLPs--Fippy and Vulak still existed when Ragefire/Lockjaw launched, and both also had no Truebox rules.

I believe Vulak's final raid guild had transferred over to Fippy not long before Ragefire opened, and was in House of Thule when RF/LJ opened and was functionally a ghost town. Fippy was lower pop but still had people playing on it (it would gradually die off completely largely due to Phinigel server launching late in 2015 being the final dagger to Fippy's population.)

As someone who actually lived the box armies of Ragefire/Lockjaw, I can also tell you--I know a ton of these people who ran big box armies on those servers. Many of them have continued to do so on every major TLP since--truebox or no. How? Because even on those non-Truebox PCs, actually boxing 50+ paid accounts is a non-trivial thing for a casual person to do. It's also non-trivial even with a good PC to run 50 EQ clients on that machine if you aren't familiar with various third party programs and optimization things you need to do. What I'm saying is booting up a mega army, even on a non-truebox server, is not really a super casual, trivial thing. It requires time to learn various techniques (some allowed, many not), and other such things. The sort of person doing that is the exact same sort of person who will know all the ways and techniques to trivially bypass truebox and run a big army on truebox servers.

Those of us who lived both pre-and post-truebox have largely observed this, and many of us have made this same comment--the primary beneficiary of truebox rules has been the big RMT mega boxers, because you make it so the little guy can't even pretend to compete with them, because the little guy mostly follows the rules and isn't setup to compete with them. Of course the little guy isn't well positioned to compete with them on a non-truebox server either. The reality is you would need more robust rule enforcement about third party programs to genuinely reign in megaboxers.

One thing I disagree with Machen on is the relevance of the non-instanced content in progression after PoR. There are some minor things, but most of them have mechanisms that make them not really blockers. Meaning they respawn really quickly, or can be done repeatedly in short order etc. There aren't any significant "blockers" that people can easily monopolize in open world after PoR. The closest you'll see to that was a quest in TSS but that was actually based on some problems with bonus rare code and a key quest mob not being rare, so it made it so he had a very low chance to spawn, which inordinately affected TSS production. I think it was fixed at some point and is no longer as serious an issue.

Another yes please from Mangler here, I would love to retire 4 laptops.

My post was in response to this:

"Once Truebox became a thing, it was inflicted on every single server except Rizlona. No votes have ever been taken, no proof feedback was parsed, no choice servers were provided. Choice servers, meaning, for example, Thornblade and Mischief didn't have one without truebox and one with it, so that people could "sign up" for one or the other. With Rizlona an anomaly, truebox is so universal to TLP it's disingenuous to even call it a ruleset."

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...s-in-omens-content.281956/page-7#post-4121218

Which for what they was stating is a good comparison, since it did exactly what they said never happened.


Don't get me wrong; I am all for relaxed true box, and feel that it really should have been put in place soon as it was seen true box actually harmed server populations on later expansions. Hopefully they do implement it on th ed past TLPs.