Can we ban the automation groups please?

Thanks for joining in then. A new server is literally what we were discussing.

I won't be joining, but I do wish you the best of luck on getting one. If they added a poll as to if they should add a server for that, I'd be happy to have the scum move to their own little world.

It's amusing that even in the context of a walled-off garden, you still go out of your way to attempt to belittle a group of people who prefer a different style of play. I'm glad we agree on the concept though, beginning to make some progress.

How's this for a server name:
Honeypot
/I think it'd be perfect.

I think you hit on it, they are not going to suddenly give cheaters a server where they can play and improve on the cheating programs as much as they want. There is no need for any type of "prison" server especially one with rules that won't give players any reason to play on them.

Everquest has come out with progression servers, ones that doesn't allow programs and ones that do allow programs. This context thus provides context that EQ promotes the use of software on its servers that aren't labeled as such.

Promoting vs ignoring. EQ allocate its resources to maximize customer needs and profits. By the way, I thought you quit.

You keep saying "cheating" but there are plenty of us that don't (or at least did not) cheat in the eyes of DPG. We would have been suspended or banned at that time years ago.

DPG stance used to be that "unattended gameplay" was cheating and not allowed. They went so far in their stance that when they accidentally left code turned on for Rizlona when it launched which blocked the use of 3rd party programs, that when players pointed it out DPG willingly went in and removed the block to allow the 3rd party programs to work on the server. That is DPG saying that they allowed those programs on their non-Truebox servers, even if they did not make an official statement with that wording.

I have zero problem admitting that I use 3rd party programs to play the game while I sit at the keyboard. I have no problem stating that because if it is no longer true and they will block players using unmentioned 3rd party programs now, then a ban or suspension won't even matter to me because I have no interest in playing the game without those tools. I haven't played EQ without boxing a group since OOW was a current expansion on Live.

I'm not one of those players that goes and steals camps, trains anyone, causes anyone trouble. I'm one of those players that if someone happens to ask for help with a mob, I stop what I'm doing to go provide assistance because I know I'm capable of helping that person get what they need done. I generally stay away from traveled areas not because I try to hide that I box, but because I simply want to play the game on my own, on my own terms, at the often weird hours that I have to play.

I do not farm gear to sell. I do not farm gear to sell for Krono. I do not sell Krono to fund my group. In fact, I have always been a purchaser of Krono. Massive amounts of them. Gearing a group of toons legitimately takes time, which I and many people have precious little of anymore with adult lives. The fun of the game for me has changed from wanting to group and raid and socialize to playing EQ more like a single player experience with some occasional random social interaction.

If I am not stepping on your gameplay or others like you in any way, not being toxic or disruptive in any manner, then you should not be on such a conquest to block players like me from playing the same game under the same rules as you. I play on Firiona Vie, in fact I transferred there in the past couple years because I did not have any interaction with anyone on my old server anymore (Xegony, ex-Druzzil Ro). The XP bonus is nice and the open economy helps gear box toons up. But it's also what you would call a "jail server". If you want a "jail server" for players that want to use 3rd party programs, then they would also need to allow transfers off FV so as to be fair in a complete 180 of a stance they have taken for many, many years now with regard to 3rd party programs.

Since I willingly pay monthly for 7 accounts, that is a lot of revenue to DPG when you multiply it by the number of other folks like me in the same situation. I've seen you state that all boxers farm Krono to support their groups. That's simply not true at all. Pushing away boxing players will hurt DPG bottom line and not by an insignificant amount.

TL;DR: Don't tell me how to play and I won't tell you how to play. Don't disrupt my play and I won't disrupt yours.

[Edited for a bunch of typos - haven't had coffee yet]

Simply because you believe you are a "good actor" (in violation of Daybreak's rules) does not mean the majority of botters are not "bad actors." Granted, the same software that provides for automation also has the ability to warp and track.

Automators are concerned with wealth and power acquisition without competition from other players (rolling on items or splitting platinum) and the limitations of real world factors (fatigue, time management, social obligations). For instance, a botter wants multiple sets of Type 5 augments for his crew but seeks to acquire it at a steady pace (no other players, overcome RNG by long duration play).

Automation and other software (mods) grants advantages to gameplay not offered to general players.

Negative externalities from automation and other software includes the following:

1. Camp and mob monopolization. The ability for automated players (whether they are on the computer or not) to remain on camps for dozens of hours or even days disrupts gameplay for rule-abiding players.

2. Skewed market effects. Botters, through 3rd party software, unjustly acquire popular items, chase items, and platinum through cheats. For chase items (Blood-Soaked), botters overcome the strain of RNG by increasing the volume of mobs they can kill. This gives them advantages not offered to rule-abiding players. Botters also stockpile the wealth to hoard heritage and LoN crate illusions or Blood-Soaked items. This takes rule-abiding players out of the market.

Again, you may believe that you are in the right and that you are "not hurting anyone." But society is governed by the rule of law and equal application of justice. We have rules against noise and toxic pollution (negative externalities/tragedy of the commons) for good reasons even through the perpetrators may themselves feel to be within their rights. There is a famous legal quote: "Your rights end where my rights begin."

We can conclude that botting and other forms of cheating are detrimental to the game's health.

Oh well, if they decide to ban me then they ban me. I'll also do a chargeback on the 6 xpacs I just bought too because I won't be using them ever again anyway. Dumb stance to take if this is indeed DPG's stance.

You can try botting on P99.

I have no interest in that server nor TLPs anymore. I only play on Live.

While Benito and others may not want to admit it, this type of player is more common than the toxic bot player. I count myself in the former group, or at least used to.

For the last couple of weeks I have found myself keeping my head down. I used to announce drops and rots in general chat, offer to let others into group when they came around, or go run a mission for someone looking for a TA (by the way, you should assume that practically every person offering TAs is a user). Now, sadly, since it is not possible to tell the folks who will be appreciative from those who have a bee in their bonnet and are ecstatic that DP is now listening to them after 20 years, this is no longer practical.

Not even sure why I care. Cancelled my 6 subs a couple days ago, and they will be lapsing in the next couple months. Still playing out the remaining time, but don't much care about any further actions DP may take.

The whole thing seems pointless. If I truly wanted to, I could still disrupt gameplay, monopolize camps, and screw with the economy as some here are sure we are all doing anyway. The only difference is that DP will no longer be getting any money from me.

Yep.

I checked my accounts and so far no suspension or bans, but maybe I'm on a list for the next wave since I just came back.

I've debated just playing like I always have since I have a 3 month sub on the accounts and just see what happens, but if I do end up getting suspended or banned in a few weeks or a month, I'll just look at it as wasted time at that point.

DPG went wrong about this. The bad actors are a small number of players that just happen to have a huge number of accounts. DPG should have just targeted the few players that were actually being toxic to the community rather than go nuclear like this.

This is the facts on the ground:

Player 1 (no automation): 10 hours of playtime to fully kit out HSta Type 5 Augments. All of that time at his/her computer.

Player 2 (automation): 10 hours of playtime to fully kit out HSta Type 5 Augments. Of those 10 hours, 2-3 hours are spent at the computer.

Player 2 feels fine with his/her actions. ("I am not hurting anyone."). Player 1 had to pass on the camp over multiple days because Player 2 had monopolized the spawn(s).

It's even worse when Player 2 decides that he wants chase loot (Ice Encrusted and Blood-Soaked) and feels like he might as well keep the augment camps for himself to "hit two birds with one stone."

This is a logical falicy.... Player 1 (either automated or not) spends 10 hours most likely in the same group all time at his keyboard... still forces "Player 3 to pass on camp because its occupied"

Player 2 is an AFK player and as we have all already stated is not ok. MOST PEOPLE WHO USE AUTOMATION DO NOT LEAVE THEIR KEYBOARD AS THEY DRIVE THEIR GROUP ON ONE TOON!

Benito you make false equivalancies and pass them off as fact when they are not. At least if you are going to use that tactic throw some sarcasm in there. You cant just make the wide sweeping generalization Automation = AFK.

This is a game mechanic/design problem, not a player problem.

The implied premise is that the Player 2 (automation) is not limited by the requirements of the human body (fatigue) and social obligations.

"Just trust us, bro." The fastest I've received a tell back from a bot group is 15 minutes. Most bot groups do not respond to my tells for more than 1 hour.

You've never missed a tell before? The game can be quite chaotic at times. Even a flashing tab can go missed with all the particle effects flying around. This is an unrealistic expectation that your message is the most important thing for someone to react to immediately that moment.

So a player who has the know-how to use automation software does not know how to create tell windows, filter chat, turn off particle effects, or set up audio triggers?

That totally explains why the fastest I've ever received a tell back from a bot group is 15 minutes with most bot groups responding at least 1 hour later.