Cya Everquest

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Elemental, Apr 4, 2022.

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  1. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    I am not familiar with FF14 but my point regarding how long EQ has been out and how long the third party programs have been running is what sets this apart in my mind.
    Imforfreedom likes this.
  2. Janakin Augur

    So your possible solution, equating it to FFIV, is if EQ allowed for you to turn a character in your group to a merc?

    That might work and it could increase subscriptions if they make it to where it had to be an all-access account and the character would not be more powerful than a non-merc player.

    Would definitely fix the bad implementation of the /follow command.

    Maybe make it where the character being turned into a merc had to accept that role and then that character would not gain any experience nor be eligible for any loot or quest/mission rewards.

    But, given how extensive that would take to program and implement, I do not see it happening.
    Imforfreedom likes this.
  3. Bernel Augur

    I think a lot of us are in the mindset of "EQ needs to make boxing better", but really we should be thinking "EQ needs to fix things so we don't need to box". The game should exist in a way that boxing is something that just a tiny percentage of people do. But instead, we see the majority of players boxing in some fashion. That's no surprise, since playing a single account isn't really feasible like it once was.

    If they are going to put work into change things, I would much prefer they put the effort into improving things like mercs so that I can play a single character rather than make boxing more feasible. It's a totally different experience for me when I box. When I play with a single char, I feel like I am that character. But when I box, I feel I'm a manager trying to get the characters to do what I want. I don't feel like I'm playing as any of the boxed characters. I don't want a game that goes in that direction (e.g Starcraft). I want a game where I feel like I'm a champion Druid or whatever. Try to get EQ back to that kind of gameplay and I think the players will be happier.
    Wdor, Klawra, Janakin and 3 others like this.
  4. Zilkress Journeyman

    Honestly I'm fine with any solution. Either DPG making mercs much better,, creating content that can be done by most characters, creating a system to use other characters as mercs, or if nothing else tacitly allowing the current systems part of the player base has adopted but with a focus on banning those that preform unattended play, RMT krono farming or warping or generally being unpleasant players. But something needs to be done.
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  5. HowDidIEndUpBackHere Elder


    This is the most practical path to take. Yes, they could implement systems on systems but really they could start by tuning NPCs and then instances to take into consideration the # of players so that classes can get through content at a reasonable pace on any class.

    Being told "Just box a <insert tank but almost always SK>. Sure, the <tank> will become your new main but you will be able to progress. Consider adding a couple more for healing and damage/utility." should never be advice given to players asking how to navigate an expansions content.
  6. Janakin Augur

    Would be nice if a blue con meant you could probably solo it regardless of class without a healer, even con 50/50 and yellow and red cons you need a group :D

    Might be interesting to have an EQ server like the new EQ2 one where everyone is max level and then scale down in level to whatever zone or mission they are doing. Would open up the quantity (maybe to an extent even quality) of people you can do a mission with. Kills earn alternate currency to upgrade the starting armor.
    Wdor and Fenthen like this.
  7. Cicelee Augur

    People want DPG to improve boxing and automation so that one person can control six characters and do whatever they want.

    DPG wants people to interact, socialize, work together, help each other out, and achieve things via teamwork and community.

    Pretty big disconnect there if you ask me.
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  8. Rebelicious Augur

    In my view merc's should be better... but the exp and loot drops should be better in groups. There's really nothing wrong with boxing, if done responsibly and not like a greedy, takeover the whole camp pos... a lot of the 3rd party boxing software should be available as part of the game along with reasonable GM oversight to prevent abuses.. as well as putting in incentives for grouping. Better game for all, all around.
    Zilkress and Imforfreedom like this.
  9. Zilkress Journeyman

    Now we get to talk about human Psychology and experience. Most people value their time. And with past experiences not only in EQ but in other MMO's people have found frustration after frustration with pick up groups or PUGS time after time. This leaves you to being able to group with friends and guildies if you dont want to PUG. However we all have real lives or at least are supposed to and may have a somewhat limited playtime. Just like in paper D&D or any tabletop Wargame such as Warhammer you have to have the same avaliability as your friend that you want to play with. Logisticly this is getting smaller and smaller windows of times actually available to group. These facts are why Modern MMO design have Solo, Group, and Raid content. So that if you have 30m or 12h to play there is something to do and you dont HAVE to rely on friends being online or available to accomplish something. Or when friends are online you can accomplish other tasks.
    Rebelicious, Vumad and Imforfreedom like this.
  10. Zilkress Journeyman


    Agreed.. don't just use the stick to punish those.. but encourage those who actually are grouping. Create some bonus or something for pick up groups. Or maybe a "HA finder" that will randomize a group looking for current HA's and provide additional currency for compleation or reduced lockout. Honestly more GM oversight to prevent the abuses would be good.
    Rebelicious and Imforfreedom like this.
  11. Mogley Lorekeeper

    I feel the same way. I have 6 accounts one is lifetime been playing now for 23 years and I am about ready to throw in the towel
    Imforfreedom likes this.
  12. Vumad Cape Wearer



    Exactly. My scheduled play time goes to raiding. Raiding for me is about interacting, socializing and teamwork. My character progression happens in short spurts during low population times. It's hard to get much done in a 60m session at 9am EST. I got most of my AA XP this expansion not from boxing but rather from repeating the Bloodfalls Partisan 3 on a loop. It's the closest thing in this expansion to meaningful solo content and I used the ever loving S*** out of it. I scaled back my playtime significantly when they moved it from 30m to 1hr. So to say people want boxing and automation is wrong and saying the goals are disconnected is wrong, because as a boxer, when a meaningful solo quest is available, I do it instead of boxing.

    Now I did box a lot of the progression, but it was much more common for me to find a person who didnt box that needed me to help them because there was no group to help them than there was a time where I didn't have to box because there was a group that wanted me.
    Metanis and Primadonna like this.
  13. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    Because why? That Daybreak is suspending and banning people that cheat?
    Wdor, Derd and Nennius like this.
  14. Zilkress Journeyman

    Well lets first remove the "O holyier than thou" attitude and the black and white view of what is or isn't "Cheating". Once that is done you may be able to have a rational discussion and understand that while yes some people box and or use box assist tools. They while yes breaking the formal EULA are good players and have provided benifit for the game and the games population. Not all boxers or botters are RMT Krono farmers that AFK at every camp you want to farm at. In fact most Boxers/Botters will almost allways remove one of their toons from group to bring in a guildy or a friend. For the longest time DBG/DPG tacitly accepted the use of the programs and even had friendly relationships with the developers of the programs that should not be named. And for the most part as long as you wern't AFK playing, being a , or RMT'ing. They were just happy you found a way to enjoy the game at no expense to anyone else. I feel the mass pushback is more from the sudden and without warning change in this policy. Additionally people who havent been using those program have been caught up in the suspension waves.. DBG/DPG has a track record of collatarel damage when these things go off. And while they may assure us that every ban has been investigated and is appropreate remember that is the same thing they said during the VM bans for True-Box servers and a large portion of those were reversed because they were false positives. There are tons of reasons why people may want to throw the towel in right now maybe its because they are as you say "Suspending Cheaters" or maybe it is because they are taking a heavyhanded approach to discipline and not doing anything to fix the underlying problems of why people Bot/Box in the first place.
    Fenthen and Kattria Minx like this.
  15. HowDidIEndUpBackHere Elder

    A heavy handed approach would've been bans -- not 7 day suspensions. Take the hit on the wrist like an adult and realize the EULA is clear cut regardless of whatever has been "said". Maybe this recent wave of very light punishment is enough to make people think about how they approach the game. Doubtful.

    People are acting like their 7 day suspension is on par with their banks being emptied and their house being foreclosed on. This is comical.

    Basically these arguments from people remind me of:
    [IMG]
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  16. Cicelee Augur

    I mean, why even bother having rules or laws right? Just be like the movie the Purge, only have it be like that 365 instead of one day!
    Derd and Nennius like this.
  17. Nennius Curmudgeon

    QFT

    Add to that that this is a game. Not life itself.
    Wdor likes this.
  18. Derd Augur

    Amazing how people with like 6 accounts cant actually play a single charachter with any skill unless they fire up the easybutton machine, and even then the performance is substandard. Sadly we've found at least three of our players that had been making improvements on recent (before suspension raids) that fell off the chart once they returned. Still waiting on one to show up to gauge that performance, but so far they haven't logged back in at all.
    Wdor likes this.
  19. Sokon Augur

    I had to like this cause it made me laugh immediately! But I play on Zek, I've only ever been interested in playing one account though, never been worried of something like this, but on Zek, which last I knew had 2 raiding guilds up to actually raiding again, which is a neccesary aspect of the game, if a large ban wave did occur, that's a huge hit to everyone there.

    Basically each of those 2 guilds has 3-4 of it's core raid group as 6 box crews.

    Should mass botting or multiboxing gotten to this level? No. If they have detection systems or activity they want to and can eliminate, why only do it once ever 5 years or so infrequently that years of people's lives and gameplay pass by to the point before each wave that people think it's ok, or even allign their raid forces utilizing this, or perhaps, transition from originally being solo players or perhaps running 2 characters to running full boxes and perhaps even more programs that could be called "cheating."

    I don't get it. There should be a frequently, monthy scrub up of whatever acitivity it is they want to eliminate. Then, years into the game from now our communities will be health and people will no NOT to play with fire.

    We are over 2 decades into the game. And the management still hasn't figured out how to maintain a healthy play style because they do stuff like this. huge ban waves after nothing for years.

    Alot of people, in both of those guilds over there put a lot of time and effort into getting that server to somewhat of a decent game+raiding experience.

    Sure, Bluebies are a dime a dozen, kind of like snowflakes in a blizzard. But Red is Dead? Ouch, it was kind of the only nostalgic part of the game. What about EQ's Legacy!!! O.M.G....

    Zek Server Population: "1"
    Imforfreedom and Bernel like this.
  20. Bernel Augur

    I'm sure part of the reason for the sporadic enforcement is a resource issue. There's not a lot of extra manpower to look for cheaters. And the issue gets even more complicated if some 3rd party use is okay. They can't just check if you are using X, they have to see if you are using X in a prohibited way. That takes time away from other projects.

    And the overreaching issue is that boxing/botting has been going on so long that it's now the basis of how the game is played. I'm not sure it's possible to get rid of now since it's so pervasive. At first it was just a few random people boxing a bit to help every now and then, but over the years it became lots of people (the majority?) boxing all the time, some even boxing multiple full groups. Just last night I was wondering if any the the newest raids have been completed where each toon was a real person. That is, are there guilds that actually complete content without any boxed toons as part of the raid? Is the game viable without things like ISB and other 3rd party add ons? If they were totally prohibited, would the players find a way to keep going or would that be the end?
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