It's actually a mixture, with the majority not alts from other guilds. During Obulette we actually had zero of these alts as the ones that we usually have were still raiding. Sandaormo is correct though. The majority of us have been playing EQ for a long time and raiding a long time. About 70% of our raid force have been raiding with NCG for many years and our raid leader, as Lilbraen has said, pretty much walks everyone through the event whilst doing it. One other note, I wonder how many guilds would have beaten the events if they hadn't done it in Beta or had the strats from Beta? I'm sure there could be a few but nowhere near as many as there currently are.
I just took a look at the DKP archive. On any given modern raid night, approx. 4-10 are on that have been raiding together since at least Anguish. More since Underfoot. Most since TBL.
This would be the perfect true test of guilds- the ability to learn and adapt on the fly to be successful. Not what we have now, where everyone knows all the stats and audio triggers and what to do because they attempted raids multiple/dozens of times in Beta. Problem with this, however, is that raids don't get tested in Beta and could be released to live broken. Which means instead of nine guilds defeating T3 on Day 1, zero guilds are winning any raids on raid launch day. You need guilds to test the raids so that they can be released on live in a mostly working condition, but by allowing guilds to Beta test they get strats and triggers and knowledge of how to execute the raid. It is a catch 22. So while the best indicator of a guild's strength and capabilities is starting at the same time and going into events blind and dumb (and then we can see a more truer order of strength), it cannot happen because devs need guilds to Beta test raids. So we are forced to use EGL to "rank" guilds.
Herein also lies the original premise of this thread. The poster said Everquest raids were too easy? How can you really know the answer if you have already done the raid and others have the strats?
I have really enjoyed the raids this expac. We didn't clear T3 this week. We never saw the Close the Gate raid in beta, and it was fun learning it. We got to the last phase, and we will win next week no doubt. Fu is usually in the 12-15 range on EGL. We clear every expac, and everyone's alts are in full raid gear. We don't have the pressure to be #1, RL first and all that good stuff. To each their own.
Many BETA testing in the past where we didn't test THAT raid.. and things still needed to be normally debugged.. It is not necessary.
And they are going to be better if they are not tested? Seems to me that we would have more issues if nothing was tested.
Hard-Modes are not even needed if you tune the requirements for achievements in the right way you can make even a simple raid trickier to beat.
elite gamers lounge should have 2 separate ranking spreadsheets. guilds who participated in beta, and guilds who didnt.
How do you classify guilds who have players who take part in beta as part of another guild or on their own and get the same information about the raids? Or guilds that learn from watching streams of the beta raids?
you do nothing about that you just separate if they officially participated in beta or didnt, thats it.
What is the point then? Some guilds get ranked differently because they officially participated while other guilds who may have participated don't get marked differently? Seems like you are just asking for drama in the guild rankings.
There were concerns that guilds testing raids were being treated better: handled. There was a concern that BETA was available to only the elite: handled. There was a concern that keys were the gatekeeper for the losers who didnt have jobs: handled. There was a concern that BETA strats owns the expansion: ur dum if you have been in beta and still think this. There is an ongoing conspiracy that dictates gear = good. There is a good chance maybe the game isn't your last hurdle. The reasons are getting thin bois. But hear me! The comedic value of Bahdah dying AND talking in discord while his death jingle pops off is worth it.
Fully aware of that. But a few alts that raided beta is quite a bit different then a guild as a whole learning the events together, right? Or no? I mean the first post on this page specifically addresses that. NGC isnt light years ahead of my guild yet they have alts of raiders that did participate in beta...so it seems to me the whole point is....pointless
The situations that I mentioned before where a guild member or members take part in beta and raid with other guilds or other groups. Guilds that get the beta information from streaming or other sources and end up with the needed information to beat the raids quickly. There are guilds with a decent number of alts that are raiding on beta and getting all that information. No matter how you look at it trying to separate the guilds that have beta information and those that don't and it isn't that hard for guilds to have the benefits of beta raids without taking part in them as a guild. I can already see complaints the very first time it is split out about how X guild only placed where it did on the non beta list because it had beta knowledge.
Depends on the event, for example Shei event in ToL, if you have 3-5 people who know the event, its really easy to do. On the other hand 3-5 people who know the event on Goranga, Primal Vampire, or Close the Gate are not going to make a huge amount. The later 3 all have mechanics that really require more action than a handful of people.
