Motivation To Play Clerics

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Karliv, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Petalonyx Augur

    They need more dps/adps in the group game.

    I think it would add some interesting tension if they had a larger, longer cast time nuke that hit super hard (they would need to plan/prep for how to keep a group alive while doing that extra dps). It could have a buff/debuff component on it that helps the group adps, too.

    Have the devs considered a slow ramp-up dps mechanic that breaks when they heal? For instance, when meleeing, the summoned hammer procs could add a short duration buff counter (e.g., up to 25 counters) that acts as a multiplier for some dmg that they do, or some dmg that the group does. A heal spell would strip the buff. A nuke spell would potentially consume it. Incidentally, this particular example is nice for encouraging some situational effective melee that remains very different from paladin play (I think it's important to keep away from the cleric-pal class blurring as much as possible).

    I'll end by saying that knight healing, and SK leach in particular, really puts a damper on clerics in the group game. If there's no need to heal, what's left for a cleric to contribute? Why would a group with no need for heals take a cleric over literally any other class? Once upon a time, clerics enabled tanks to run 2H dps. It feels like that's no longer a way that clerics can contribute effective dps to a group. Everyone can safely run their max dps to their heart's content, even without a healer.
    Niskin likes this.
  2. Zipe The Healer

    Hello,


    Before ToL launch, I posted this on the Beta class forums. It was just a brainstorm of ideas that would make the cleric class more dinamic. I'll start by reposting this there in case anyone wants to add something, like Clarisa did. I'll split my original post into two post becuase it got too long. I'll add my direct reply to Niente's direct question on another thread.

    [62209/4949] Unyielding Rebuke Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/119
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 3366
    Target: Single -> Make it like druid/shaman version Target: Targets Target
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Magic
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Can Break Root: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 1s, Recast: 12s, Rest: 1,5s
    1: Decrease Current HP by 19906 (If Not Undead Or Summoned)
    2: Decrease Current HP by 26877 (If Undead)
    3: Decrease Current HP by 23889 (If Summoned)

    Comment from Clarisa




    [62221/4931] Incorruptible Hammer of Obliteration Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/119
    Skill: Conjuration
    Mana: 1450
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0,5s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    1: Summon Pet: PCPetClrS24L119HammerRk3 -> Make it permanent and make it hit like a mage pet.

    [62160/4960] Issuance of Conviction Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/118
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 3468
    Target: Target Ring AE
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 4s, Recast: 5m, Timer: 13, Rest: 1,5s
    1: Summon Pet: PCSwmClrS24L118FreeHealRk3 x 1 for 120s -> Make it permanent (or same duration as now) but make it a pet that actually follows us, so we must choose vs dps pet or healing pet (we can't have it up if we have Incorruptible Hammer of Obliteration Rk. III up)

    [62194/4914] Promised Reclamation Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/118
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 2086
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes -> Don't let it be overwritten by casts of the same spell by other clerics.
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0,25s, Recast: 15s, Timer: 12, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 18s (3 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Cast: Promised Reclamation Trigger III on Duration Fade
    2: Stacking: Delayed Heal Marker (65248)
    3: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 2 is 'Delayed Heal Marker' and < 65249
    4: Stacking: Overwrite existing spell if slot 2 is 'Delayed Heal Marker' and < 65248

    Comment from Clarisa





    [62224/4938] Chromablast Rk. III
    -> Remove this spelline, improve the other nukes.
    Classes: CLR/119
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 2423
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Lowest
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Can Break Root: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 4,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Push: 1'
    1: Decrease Current HP by 15480 (If Not Undead Or Summoned)
    2: Decrease Current HP by 20901 (If Undead)
    3: Decrease Current HP by 18582 (If Summoned)

    [62236/4963] Hand of Unyielding Infusion Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/119
    Skill: Abjuration
    Mana: 7812
    Target: Target Group, MGB: No
    Range: 100', AE Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 2m, Timer: 9, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 60s+ (10 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 8 Offensive Proc Casts
    5: Add Melee Proc: Devout Infusion Rk. III with 200% Rate Mod -> Make it Life leech like SHD 2.0 for a very reduced period, or increase its healing by like 1000%


    Comment from Clarisa




    [62212/4917] Mark of Ezra Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/119
    Skill: Abjuration
    Mana: 2525
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Make it Viral again -> Viral Range: 40', Recast: 2s to 8s
    Resist: Magic -55
    Reflectable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 15m+ (150 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Decrease Damage Shield by 3806
    2: Increase Reverse Damage Shield by 2397

    [62191/4912] Sound of Providence Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/118
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 250
    Target: Single -> Make it Target: Targets Target
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Magic -30
    Reflectable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0,25s, Recast: 30s, Timer: 6, Rest: 1,5s
    1: Stun for 5s up to level 120 -> Make it like a paladin stun 1: Stun for 10s (5,25s in PvP) up to level 123
    2: Cast: Inspired Heal Caza VII (v374) -> x10 base healing increase.

    Basically turn it into a heal that stuns our target's target.

    [62094/4904] Aweblast Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/116
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 1520
    Target: Single -> Make it Target: Targets Target
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Magic -15
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Can Break Root: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 2s, Recast: 24s, Timer: 4, Rest: 1,5s
    Push: 3'
    1: Stun for 8s (5,25s in PvP) up to level 120 > Make it like a paladin stun 1: Stun for 10s (5,25s in PvP) up to level 123
    2: Decrease Current HP by 5269 -> Increase base dmg x5
    3: Cast: Inspired Heal Caza VII (v374) -> x10 base healing increase.
    Basically turn it into a heal that stuns our target's target.

    [62206/4939] Sermon of Repentance Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/118
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 16090
    Target: Undead
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Magic -100
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 30s+ (5 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Decrease Current HP by 46014 per tick
    2: Cast: Aquifer Slow (20% Chance) (v340) -> Make the slow 100% Chance.

    [62178] Venerated Ground Effect III
    Target: Undead (If Undead)
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Lowest
    Reflectable: No
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    1: Decrease Current HP by 24935 (If Undead) -> Make the damaging pulse that the aura does do 10 times more damage.
    2: Cast: Venerated Ground Shock (20% Chance) (v340) -> Make it 100% chance root.

    [62166/4961] Vow of Perniciousness Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/118
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 1650
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3,5s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 72m+ (720 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Decrease Healing by 25% (v125, Before Crit) -> Make it decrease 90% healing.
    2: Add Melee Proc: Pernicious Strike III with 200% Rate Mod -> Make pernicious Strike do 10 times more dmg, like 100k per proc.


    [62100/4915] Vow of Tenacity Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/116
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 900
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3,5s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 72m+ (720 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Decrease Healing by 25% (v125, Before Crit) -> Make it decrease 90% healing
    2: Add Melee Proc: Tenacious Strike III with 200% Rate Mod -> Make Tenacious Strike do 10 times more dmg, like 100k per proc.



    [62122/4909] Divine Writ Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/117
    Skill: Evocation
    Mana: 3264
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Magic
    Reflectable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Can Break Root: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 4,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    1: Decrease Current HP by 19341 (If Not Undead Or Summoned) -> x3 base damage
    2: Decrease Current HP by 26106 (If Undead) -> x3 base damage
    3: Decrease Current HP by 23208 (If Summoned) -> x3 base damage

    [62135/4936] Eighteenth Rejuvenation Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/117
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 3681
    Target: Single (If HP Below 45 Percent) -> 45 is too much, make the spell better but harder to use, reduce to 35% or 25%.
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0,5s, Recast: 6s, Timer: 11, Rest: 1,5s -> Make it instant cast, increase recast timer to 60s.
    1: Increase Current HP by 13861 (If HP Between 35 and 45 Percent) -> delete this line
    2: Increase Current HP by 23103 (If HP Between 25 and 35 Percent) -> x2 base healing increase
    3: Increase Current HP by 31469 (If HP Between 1 and 25 Percent) -> x2 base healing increase

    Comment from Clarisa






    [62119/4908] Hallowed Elixir Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/117
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 3833
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 24s+ (4 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    1: Increase Current HP by 15377 per tick -> Make it heal for x3 or x2 more.

    HoT healing is really RNG based nowadays, with the fast-paced game. HoTs must be really strong in order to be worth casting them, specially the single target ones.

    [62126/4921] Ward of Prohibition Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/117
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 5412
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 2m+ (20 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Max Hits: 120 Defensive Proc Casts
    1: Add Defensive Proc: Ward of Prohibition Parry III with 400% Rate Mod -> make that proc do 10x damage.


    [62097/4924] Contenting Glow Rk. III
    Classes: CLR/116
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 2050
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 4s, Recast: 1,5s, Rest: 1,5s
    Duration: 42s+ (7 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    1: Decrease Social Radius to 10 up to level 120 -> increase up to lvl 123



  3. Zipe The Healer

    AA

    [53697/12557] Divine Avatar XXVII
    Classes: CLR/254
    Skill: Melee
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 1,5s
    Duration: 3m (30 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes
    3: Increase Hit Damage by 600% (v185) -> Make it increase hit dmg by 6.000%, at least.
    4: Increase Worn Proc Rate by 200%
    6: Increase Current HP by 4000 per tick
    7: Increase Critical Nuke Damage by 50% of Base Damage -> Make it increase MELEE crit chance.
    8: Decrease Weapon Delay by 33,8%
    Add this line: 9: Decrease Healing by 90% (v125, Before Crit)

    This would give you some kind of DPS vs Healing stance choice. If I want to do DPS I can't heal, etc.



    [53688/27658] Focused Celestial Regeneration XXV
    Classes: CLR/254
    Skill: Melee
    Target: Single
    Range: 100'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 18s+ (3 ticks) Song, Dispelable: Yes -> Decrease AA reuse timer to 3 minutes.
    13: Increase Current HP by 22000 per tick -> Make it heal 220,000 per tick.

    [53703/32339] Quiet Prayer VIII
    Remove the shared ability timer with Veturika's Perseverance. Don't let clerics use Quiet Prayer on self or even other clerics.
    Classes: CLR/254
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 90000
    Target: Single (If No Shroud of Prayer Buff)
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s
    Duration: 6s (1 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Hate: -100
    1: Increase Current HP by 90000
    2: Increase Current Mana by 90000 (v358)
    3: Buff Blocker C (10)
    4: Cast: Shroud of Prayer (v374)

    Let us heal mana pools more consistently.


    Comment from Clarisa

  4. Zipe The Healer


    The biggest motivation to play a cleric is its raw healing power and the tools the class have to ensure survival. This should be enough on the raid scene, but it turns insufficient on the group game, where all this raw healing tools are only used on situations of stress. Not everybody have the group setup to go into stress situations where a cleric would shine to deal with, and mostly, I bet, the average player is facing situations that a Cleric Mercenary or another priest class can easily deal with.

    That leaves the cleric on a boring spot on the group game. My opinion is that giving the cleric more tools to interact on the group game would be ideal. First that comes into mind is giving the cleric more DPS or ADPS utility.

    On my previous post I threw in some ideas that involve giving more utility to cleric via more powerful stuns, that would, potentially, give the cleric the opportunity to DPS more. Also, since, obviously having too much healing power, utility and also healing could make the class, let's say, imbalanced, I relied on the idea of Stance switching that we already kinda have with the Vow line: If I want to dps my healing power will be limited.

    Continuing from above, what isn't good is the DPS capacity. More DPS power could potentially lead to having more fun on raids during Farm status and more desirability on the group content and more capability on the solo game.

    I also think that our utility power is kinda limited. Nowadays, only our Shining and Life Save buffs are outstanding, rest of our short term buffs are really limited: See the Promised healing line, Anticipation line and Divine consequence line. This utility short term buffs are not working properly (there was a post I lost the link of that comment that this procs are proccing before the damage that procs them so leading to some overhealing).

    Also, the Guard lines (that we got two of them at lvl 120 that have very minor differences and their utility is questionable, altho I can see a small design decision on each of them: one absorbs less thus healing sooner, maybe good for Melee eating AE ramp, the other last longer, absorbing more, so it may be good if you want to boost the Guard component instead of the healing proc when it expires, but well, the one that procs sooner have a very little heal... so my reasoning doesn't make sense), Jezz, I am hearing myself while trying to find the difference between these two spells and I find it really hilarious. I am trying hard and having a very hard time at trying to justify their existence.

    The guard lines are too redundant and I think that a lot of clerics just ignore them, and most of the time, if you see the buff on someone, probably it was casted by a mercenary or a cleric once before a raid event.



    The Ward line(Ward of Righteousness, etc); I loved it but yet I feel like it is underused. The reuse timer is good but I feel like it should ward for longer/more dmg so we could use it as a Pre pull buff (something on the line of a Targeted Flash of Anger spell, which, I feel, it is already but I would love to have its power increased turning it into a very valuable tool on the group and raid game. It would be really fun to sync with tanks that have Flash down and are going to engage an add, this giving them a small version of their Flash). So yeah, what I am suggesting is making this spell aborb all dmg for 6 seconds, instead of 40k for 8 hits.

    Well, simplifying it... our short term buffs certainly need a revision.

    I think that the solution would be adding more dynamism to the class, by giving us the opportunity of being capable to have useful tools on other areas; dps, adps, utility, CC.
    Niskin likes this.
  5. Wildeone New Member

    Imo it's as simple as not having to spam heal and allowing the cleric ease of mind to do things that aren't healing in the process
    -make hots tick every 3 seconds
    -dramatically increase the healing output of the issuance shield aura thing
    -make the single Target mark that heals with melee actually provide a useful amount of passive healing
    -don't make the cleric switch targets from npc to tank to heal
    -make promised heal the tank when they click the buff off
    -reduce global cool down on nukes.
    Niskin likes this.
  6. Tucoh Augur

    I recently ditched my cleric in my 6box team for a paladin and couldn't be happier getting rid of the dead weight. Here's what would have made me reconsider that choice:

    1. Dramatically (and I mean dramatically) increase the impact of the Vow line. Instead of a 25% reduction in healing for a 200% proc rate 9k DD, make it 75% reduction in healing for a 400% proc rate of 50k DD. Or better yet, ditch the proc and just have it massively increase pre-crit spell damage (SPA302), by like, 200% and increase damage bonus (SPA418) by 40k so clerics can enjoy the spells/melee they already have instead of using a proc as a crutch. These numbers were pulled from my butt. I'd recommend yeeting them out there during the quiet-time in the summer and then buff/nerf in the next expansion that upgrades that spell line..
    2. Add more group missions like The Crusaders (https://cov.eqresource.com/thecrusaders.php) and more named mobs like Copper Star (https://tbl.eqresource.com/copperstar.php) that come with massive AE DPS. I don't think any named or missions in ToL have AE that requires group healing, much less the group healing a cleric can put out.
    3. Nerf the healing potential and mana efficiency of shamans and paladins and remove the group component of the shadowknight's epic so that clerics are an ideal choice even if you're not going into one of the rare encounters with ridiculous AE damage.
    4. Alternatively, just merge the paladin and cleric class. :D
    Regnad likes this.
  7. Pano Augur

    Yeah, it'd require adjustment to the buff or do like our spire, a buff for us and a different buff for the group.
  8. Thraine Augur

    Lets compare cleric parses to other priests then .. yeah it still sucks lol

    my point was no matter who you compare it too it blows. and for the record if i had mad dps on my cleric i would still sit back and heal, i play a cleric so i dont have to deal with dps :)
  9. PatCleric Healer of Aradune

    I would like to also vote that the summoned pets (Wiz's also) just become permament and a little stronger. Don't think we need to get into needing pet focus; but also should just have full control (not like enc pet) and can do the /hold commands so they only attack when needed. Doesn't make a huge difference but adds something else the class gets to do.
  10. Jordis Augur

    This is the one issue raised in the thread that I really don't get.

    My main is an enchanter, and I made and leveled up a cleric when the fellowship I was in decided to try new classes and needed a cleric. So I made one which is partially CoV raid geared with the rest T3 tradeskill and full AA now. There are constant requests for the cleric. During BETA I was LFG with an enchanter and didn't hear from anyone, not unexpected, but then logged in the alt cleric for buffs and with no LFG she got requests for groups. Day after day, it's people in the guild and general looking for a *cleric* for the current content missions. What I constantly hear is in groups is that it's all about the big DPS and healing, and big DPS does generally require a cleric with big healing if there's little to no damage mitigation.

    I enjoy playing the cleric for the same reason that I wouldn't want to be a main/raiding cleric. It is largely restricted to watching the red lines, has simple set-ups for the extended target, and you focus on the red-lines as one cleric put it. I just doesn't seem to have the additional utility of some of the other classes.
  11. Dre. Altoholic

    It feels super boss when I take out my cleric's hammer, Yaulp, Ward, cast Blood and go to town on a pile of enemies only to die because they were 30 levels below me instead of 40-50 levels below me.
    Metanis, Tallie, Pano and 2 others like this.
  12. Jordis Augur

    Remember back when they gave Clerics and Enchanters chromatic spells and a few other changes to "encourage them to group?"
  13. Aziuno Augur

    I used to main a Cleric back in Kunark > GoD in the 2000's.
    I have never played a cleric past 75.

    That being said, here are some things I witnessed while playing a cleric that lead to my enjoyment and eventual reason I don't main the class anymore.

    When you play a cleric, it is a minigame within the game. You are playing a resource management game and Triage with healing. You literally can make or break a group with the wrong decision / inattentiveness.

    As you hit 60 and 65 with AA's you get many tools that are needed and help make your job more enjoyable and give you more breathing room.

    The issue I always ran into at a group level was eventually your group grows too strong and triage goes out the window and it is just top people off now and then. People's gear makes them super tanky, AA's make them also able to take hits or heal a bit, or drop threat... you basically are only needed if you are going to challenge something of high difficulty or get overran.

    While maining a cleric, these were the times I would try to take on that battle cleric role, summoning my trusty hammer, memming some stuns and throwing down in the melee knowing full well that I am not really doing anything other than denying myself of mana from meditating.... But it was something refreshing and entertaining to do since I no longer needed to Triage in a group.

    I think that many clerics become boxes because they are absolutely needed to really guarntee/push the group saftey, but people are less likely to main them as they become dull when content is on par difficulty wise with the group, or even trivial for the group.

    This could open up a bunch of options for fillers that wouldn't break the game, but give the clerics things to do if you are a main cleric (just how there are many melody bard boxes, but a main bard can really push the limits and out perform a box)


    --Since I haven't played one past 75, there could easily be AA/Spells that do these things already...

    -Modify clerics stun's to transfer the threat to the Target of the target.
    --This way a cleric could make their healing easier, by disabling the target for a few seconds and also transferring the generated threat to the main target. This could help when you have a undergeared tank in the group, or a non conventional tank such as a Bst/Ranger/zerker etc.

    -Give self buff proc's that stack with other hammer procs etc, and would do pretty good damage, could even be like a when you proc you lose 100 mana and do 500dmg, something where it is a tradeoff of dmg for resources, but not in the fashion of just nuking.

    -Make their heals Target of Target, so it would make melee cleric more viable

    -Give buff lines that make it so when you shield bash It would proc some self buff, could be like a shield bash procs yaulp or a DD or a Debuff that makes the mob flagged as Undead so our Undead nukes/dots would work on them temporarily

    -Give clerics a lower version of a rune that consumes the clerics HP to apply it. like -2k Clerics HP for 2k rune to the target
  14. Tremeroy New Member



    Tell your tanks to grow a pair. If the cleric isn't working hard it's because the tanks are either lazy or have no faith in them. Pushing the limits is a big part of what makes this game constantly fun, and forces the healers and tanks to find their rhythm. If extended target isn't overflowing, they aren't trying.
    Bigstomp likes this.
  15. newbietoo New Member


    I completely agree with several reply posts. I also believe if we truly want changes, they will HAVE to be fairly simple. The less developer time, the better. Because of that, creating new AA, changing a dozen different spells, et cetera, I believe should be limited. I just do not believe that enough time would be dedicated to actually fix everything that cleric class deserves to get fixed.

    What will help solve the problem? HUGE increase in DPS and/or aDPS.

    Which aspects are not good? Solo/molo are absolutely horrible, because personal DPS is horrible. Group is good, but ONLY when group is pulling 5+ (group geared tank) or 15+ (raid geared tank) mobs at a time. So, for many clerics, group is only good like 10% of the time. 90% of the time grouping stinks and is boring as crap. Even if in an excellent spot, it isn't very easy for a tank to consistently grab 10+ mobs every pull. Raid role is pretty decent. Many small tweaks could be made, and any DPS increases would help raiding once on farm a fair bit.

    What would make it better? (and, IMO, also needs to be 'fairly easy')

    Clerics do not get the HUGE AA boosts that others get for their DPS abilities. They do not get the proc augs that others get, that add significant DPS, etc. So, to be even semi-relevant, their BASE dps abilities should be BETTER than the base dps abilities of the comparable class. The cleric nukes, contraventions, and interventions should be HIGHER base damage than the highest wizard's nuke, and they still could not even come close to the output that a wizard (or even druid or shaman) would.

    And/or ... as others have mentioned, many do like the battle cleric aspect of the class, but, for the same reason, lack of boosting AA, proc augs, short reuse melee increase AA, etc, clerics would need a TREMENDOUS increase to weapon ratios (like 500% better than they currently are, maybe?).

    Clerics do not get a short reuse melee increasing AA, and I feel clerics need a huge boost to sustained DPS. Drastically increasing a burst melee DPS AA is not the answer, in my opinion. For one, I do not believe even a HUGE increase to burst melee will make any difference, since cleric get almost no boosts via other AA etc, for melee.

    Personally, I despise the idea of making the DPS increase for a cleric connected to melee. I feel that incorporating melee in the raid environment will be exceptionally difficult sometimes. The movement required to melee mobs, combined with the requirement to NOT move in order to cast heals on others is no cohesive. This is why I personally feel the increased DPS should come from casting, not melee.
    Pano likes this.
  16. Aziuno Augur

    You must not have played TLP's in the 70's Era. Tanks can pretty much have 1/2 of paw on them with just a heal over time healing them, and cleric won't bat an eye or have to triage. Additionally RSS is also a joke once you have a raid geared tank, where you can have 5 mobs on them without issue.

    The issue becomes zone density doesn't keep up with the groups, which in turn, means clerics job becomes boring.

    I am not talking group geared, but raid geared, and in the lower level era's where all of the changes on live have creative massive character power bloat. When you have enchanters tanking Fennin Ro the Tyrant of Fire in PoP Era, you know there is massive power bloat that trivializes the clerics role.
  17. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    Great posts so far, not sure if I've had enough coffee to do this coherently yet, but here goes.

    Aside from some sub-30 fun over the years, and on TLP's, all of my Cleric experience has come from playing one over the last year. Heroic Boost -> Ranger Headshotting Extravaganza -> 110, then played normally and with Overseer to 115, and now 120. The content experienced was from TBM to ToL Tier 1, with the move to T2 happening soon. All of this was group content, with a group that has ranged from 3-6 actual players on any given day.

    The Cleric is a great healing class. In the group game it probably heals twice as good as it needs to, CoV names notwithstanding (Morweena could probably take every single ToL T1 mob one on one). The issue for me, at the group level, is that when less healing is needed, I have almost no good options to be useful. Now, if the mob is undead, it can get a little one-trick-pony, but at least I can spike the DPS meter once in a while with a crit proc. Surprises are fun, so that helps, but otherwise, I'm just recasting buffs and proc buffs we don't really need, just to look useful. My current spell setup allows for 3 offensive slots, so two Contraventions and one Chromawhatever. If healing isn't in high demand, I'm cycling those, and reapplying Mark of Ezra even though it doesn't really need to be re-applied.

    So let's get to the good, Intravention and Contravention, these spells make the class more fun, but the Contraventions are limited unnecessarily. Reduce the Contravention recast timers, increase the damage, reduce the healing. It doesn't feel like there's enough difference in the heal/damage amounts of these lines. The nukes should be NUKES, that heal some. The heals should be HEALS, that nuke some. Honestly, the Intravention line could get a damage increase and still count as nuking "some" rather than "a lot." Contravention needs the recast time reduction, drastically, whereas Intravention could use a slight reduction, but it's not as necessary.

    Next up, the semi-good, the Mark line. I love these spells, a reverse DS overwrites a DS. "Look mom, I'm debuffing!" More feeling useful, yay. But it's too weak, not necessarily in healing, but in function. Mark should be our melee ADPS spell. Add another line to the spell, so if Mark is on, it benefits melee somehow, whether that's a debuff to the mob or a boost to the player meleeing. Though that would affect raid balance in addition to the group game, but I liked the concept so I put it out there anyway.

    In summary, we heal fine in the group game, more than fine. We need something to do when we don't need to heal much, that isn't nearly useless. Vow is bad, others covered that. Our nukes are not AA-modified to the extent of DPS classes, and they shouldn't be, but the disparity created by relying on crits for modern damage output has kicked us pretty hard, and we weren't doing well in this area before that development.
  18. Auxero New Member

    Spitball ideas

    Let plain jane healing spells be dual purpose which is alluded to above. Could be done a few ways. Healing a player/merc/pet whether needed or not delivers a % of the heal as damage to his target with reduced agro since you already are getting agro from the heal.
    Healing overflow in () typically wasted could be delivered to the healed player/mer/pet target as direct damage or a dot.
    Healing a player/merc/pet whether needed or not could be queued almost like a rune to absorb future damage or delivered to his target as a damage shield until the healed amount is expended in damage.

    These heals could heal for lower amounts than the best heals, have longer cooldowns or whatever to allow situational use. This mode of healing could be triggered using a stance or something similar as well.
    Use a stance or mode to switch from healing mode to battle mode converting heals to be less effective and nukes to become more effective.

    Also give clerics merc only buffs that enhance moloing with a tank merc for them. An existing buff(s) from another class could be pulled and used.
  19. Tatanka Joe Schmo


    EQ2 >ALREADY DOES THIS<

    For all spells.

    For all classes.

    People complain a LOT about lag and spikes in EQ. And using "/assist" seems to have a bit of it's own built in lag.

    Solve all this by doing what EQ2 has been doing since 2004. If I cast a detri spell on a friendly, it lands on their target. If I cast a beni spell on a mob, it lands on their target.
  20. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    The code to accomplish this already exists in multiple spell lines for multiple classes. Wish they'd just implement this.