Gain rate is too low

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, Dec 28, 2021.

  1. Fian Augur

    I don't know what you want to call it, maybe the amount of effort for a reward? Here is what I have seen:
    • Since TOV they have decreased the rate that named mobs spawn. Less loot, more difficult to complete hunter ach.
    • Since COV they have decreased the drop rate of collectibles for mob kills
    • Since TOV they have decreased the gain of reg experience for killing mobs
    • Since COV, they have started to increase the amount of AA required to gain an AA rank, even though AA gain has been made static since EOK.
    So, instead of producing more content, they are making the same actions produce less in these expansions. I get that they want players to keep playing an entire year, but we already made our peace with less content, in my case by making alts on the same account. Now, with slower progression, my alts are getting further and further behind.
    Let's put this another way. I get that in MMORPG they slow down advancement compared to single player RPG as they want you paying that monthly sub, and not getting bored and leaving. However, there becomes a point, where when players don't get enough advancement rewards, they get discouraged and leave. I actually left for 9 months in COV, partly due to collectible drop rate. I don't think developers are considering the cost of slowing down the advancement curve.
    P.S. was in a hunter raid today, and after many hours, and the rare bonus, the spawn rate of named was abysmal. We weren't even seeing a named mob every 90 min, which supposedly is the TOV standard.
  2. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I would actually be ok with a slow "gain rate" as you call it. If there wasn't such an expectation to get max level quickly.
    Balance the mobs, items and raids towards not being max level and I would be ok with slow levelling, but right now I can't wear most of the new gear or augs before I am max level. There are also many raiding guilds who expects you to be max level before you can raid current content. I remember in TBM where even raid gear was usable at level 100. And even RoS raids were beatable at below max level, no clue how it is for ToL though.

    It is also much slower to gain a set of augments with currency than it used to be, they should try to give currency rewards to some of the non-mission quests too(mercenary and partisans). It would allow us some variation, rather than repeating the same 4 missions all the time.

    As for AAs, I haven't reached the AA-cap since EoK, so you might be right about that too. And I have pretty much accepted that Im an expansion behind with collectibles, where overseer can help.
    Varillian and Sancus like this.
  3. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    You’re about to get told everything is fine by a bunch of people that roll around with box crews.
    Leerah, Bobokin, Skuz and 10 others like this.
  4. Tappin Augur

    Just a matter of time before the walking/talking ‘self help pamphlets’ come to troll the thread.
    Skuz and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  5. Benito EQ player since 2001.



    Can we have the data sets and analysis where you have come to these conclusions?

    I'm just asking to verify your baseline assumptions before this thread progresses. It's always nice to learn something new.
  6. Sancus Augur

    I don't have hard data on it, but anecdotally I don't think named spawn rates or collection drop rates have declined, at least as recently as ToV/CoV. ToV had some really uneven spawn rates at launch (Neemzaq vs Margidor), but those were evened out after the first patch. I haven't finished ToL Hunter yet, but my group (not boxed) has been able to do about a zone a night, and I'm done with collections this year earlier than in prior years.

    One thing I have noticed, and have heard corroborated by others, is that kill speeds have slowed over time. I don't really feel this in a full group, but I do notice it when soloing. I suspect people will respond to that by saying it's a group-oriented game - and it is - but I'd be willing to bet my DPS solo isn't much lower than say a group of 2-3 average players (where one might be a cleric or something). I do think those groups are important, because that's more realistic for most non-boxers than the full group of six that I normally play with.

    Just reducing mob HP has its own negative consequences, and an increase to drop rates, named spawn rates, and XP rates has implications for full groups (or well coordinated boxed groups). As such, I don't have a great solution, but I do feel like a few average skill level friends should be able to go out and accomplish more in a play session than they currently can. In a perfect world, part of this solution would be iteration on class design to raise the skill floor and reduce ADPS dependence (at least in group content) a bit, but class changes are hard to come by in today's EQ.
  7. Fian Augur

    I experienced it. There was a developed that posted after they rebalanced TOV spawns that if you cleared all ph, the goal was 90 min to spawn a name on average. Collectible drop rate is much worse in COV in some cases, and everyone has been talking about TOV experience gain.
  8. Marton Augur

    I agree. There should be alternate options to earn group currency.
    Skuz, Ozon, Fenthen and 1 other person like this.
  9. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    Thanks for the context Sancus. You are the master statistician for EQ.

    I would like to know how much spawn rates and collection rates have dropped if there is data on it.

    In a comparative analysis,

    In a sample of 18,000 mobs in TBL, the drop rate on collectibles was 0.097 per mob.
    In a sample of 5,000 mobs in ToL, the drop rate on collectibles was found to be reduced to 0.027 per mob.

    I do hope we can see the hard numbers at some point if someone is willing to collect and analyze.

    It does feel that ToL mobs have higher HP/mitigation and that ought to get retuned at some point. (There is a bug forum post about the HP/mitigation of specific mobs such as well-fed rockgrabbers).
  10. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    If you can get the hard numbers (change in rates), you will have a stronger case to lobby for change.

    The problem is that you need to make a case. If the rate differs by a few percentage points, the devs could attribute a complaint to RNG spikes.
  11. Tucoh Augur

    Yeah kill rate in ToL is way slower than the last few years. It'll obviously increase once i get my gear / spells worked out but I remember aiming for continuous 20s kills back in GMM days. Now I'm much slower.

    This has an exacerbating effect on drops per hour, in addition to the lower drop rate I'm seeing on trade skill and collection items (which i have no data on and I might be wrong)
    Ibadan Kun'Tirel and Coagagin like this.
  12. Fian Augur

    In regards to kill rate, I do agree with you, and can make things like collection drop rate a bigger issue. I suspect they increased hp to make dot classes more useful in a group settings. When mobs die in under 20 seconds, dot classes are pretty useless.
  13. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    Are you referring to this?
    He says 72 minutes.
    Skuz and Sancus like this.
  14. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Do you happen to know if the 72 minute standard is new or has it been the standard since before TBL/ToV?

    They could be aiming for 72 minutes but too heavily tweaked the numbers in an unfavorable direction. (They should be more liberal to decrease the likelihood of RNG streaks - i.e. aim for 60 minutes instead of 72 minutes).
  15. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    My friend's sister's uncle's cousin's dad runs a box crew and he said there is no problem here.

    Everything is fine. Now, about those merc AAs these achievements keep giving me...
  16. Riou EQResource


    72 minute standard has been the thing for the past like probably 12 years
    Ozon, Sancus and Benito like this.
  17. Laronk Augur

    Required levels on gear does not help this game.
  18. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    If people are feeling like spawn rates are lower (hopefully we can get hard numbers), I wonder if it is a bug? A dev could have erroneously added or subtracted a digit. (I remember when Prathun or another dev accidentally put the wrong value for a bonus XP event). Also, could there be such a thing as a critical failure/vibration for RNG streaks? (I'm not a coder or mathematician).

    Edit: I have personally experienced really streaky RNG for named and specific item drops. I can find a named spawn 3 times in 1 hour but then go on for days without a named. But, on the forums, it is usually brushed off as bad luck.
  19. WorriedinNorrath Elder


    Yes, the same 20 people that have been camping these forums for years and all agree with each other.
  20. WorriedinNorrath Elder

    Not sure who took over after him but since Rashere left as lead dev the game has gone to crap.