Enchanter and Druid Guides

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Rexa, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. Vumad Cape Wearer


    I agree from a DPS / aDPS standpoint our gameplay is basically the same from groups to raids. But for example, I believe ENC are the best pullers in the game, but the written guide barely touches it. We don't get to pull on raids, but we can out perform any class on everything except run speed and frequency of fade. I have wanted to make a video on pulling, but I don't have the tools to do it, I think.
  2. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Nobody really cares about pulling. Bring them all, pop discs, burns, and let’s keep it rolling. This isn’t 1999, nobody wants singles.
    RPoo likes this.
  3. Vumad Cape Wearer


    That is as true as it is sad.
    Metanis and Skrab like this.
  4. code-zero Augur

    Nobody wants singles until they need singles and even then they'll cry because they don't like having to think about what they are doing. Playing a bard if the tank wants 3 I'll bring 3, they they want 7 I'll bring 7 and if they want to pull I'll have aDPS going but I'll be prepared to Lyre Leap/run/fade when they inevitably wipe at some point.

    I used to have a list of tanks I'd avoid grouping with because they'd get angry after I would have to use a rez token to get the group back up because respawn overlapped with their disc being down and they died taking almost everyone else with them
    Rexa likes this.
  5. Szilent Augur

    if you count blurring the mobs as fading, you win that too!
  6. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Except scrubs who aren't up to date with all the latest augs/gear/AAs/elite groupmates/etc.

    As in all things EQ, those who could really rock at pulling have no interest/need for it. Those who could use it don't know the elite tricks to have it work really well.
  7. Vumad Cape Wearer

    I 3-box ENC MAG CLR with WAR ROG ROG (CLR in T2) so pulling is a major part of my gameplay.
    code-zero likes this.
  8. Metanis Bad Company

    Thank you Rexa for the great guide. I read the entire thing and watched the video. The only piece I'm unsure of is when you'd use Calculated Insanity. I see it on your hotbar next to your Spire and a button called "Mini burn", so I'm guessing you would use it mostly in a Group setting when IOG is down and you are dotting a lot?
  9. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Interested to get verification from Rexa or Sancus. Last week I was using Insanity with spire, and now I'm sure that was incorrect. This week I switched to...

    From what I see, Insanity combined with our base crit rate gives us 100% crit chance for 27 casts, so the best time to use Insanity is when we have the least amount of active crit bonus. It is on a 20 minute recast delay so we probably only get it once per event, so using it early seems less advantageous than using it at an optimal time, that being when most everything else is on refresh. Though using it at the very end of an event seems less than ideal if it could prevent it being used on the next event.

    The self buffs like insanity were near the end of the Sancus guide in the appendix referenced in the general section of Rexa's webpage.
    Metanis likes this.
  10. Rexa Ask someone else for buffs

    There are some things I need to still update or add clarity on - like Calculated Insanity. I am fully aware I never addressed this ability. I will re-update my guides after ToL is out (probably mid December).

    If you read my aDPS guide under my Enchanter page (or Sancus' aDPS guide for that matter), you'll know by now that you have a passive DD crit chance rate of 58 percent already (assuming you have the AAs and DoN completed).

    CI gives you an increased crit chance rate of 95% so you're going to be way over the cap regardless on that front no matter when you choose to use it. I wouldn't really be stuck on that first part. You're more concerned about the fact that CI also increases the strength of critical damage DDs by 10% for 27 DD spells you cast (and lasts up to 4 minutes before you lose the effect whether or not you cast that many spells). You're really going to be worried about the latter effect on your DDs as a result. The CI buff goes into the song window as a side note. So if you zone with it on you, it will poof like IoG.

    ITC (or a DD that happens to get twincasted) will consume 2 procs of CI per DD. Another thing to note.

    CI also has the most atrocious refresh time out of all Enchanter AAs. It takes 20 minutes to refresh.

    If you're burning a mission named, doing a short raid event or whatever short event, you my as well pile it on top of your ITC with other activated abilities together in all honesty. It just doesn't hurt. Yours nukes will have an advantage since your dots in that case won't probably last all that long to keep refreshing them anyhow.

    On raids, usually Enchanters (assuming there are enough) with ITC will most likely run an alliance immediately after going through their burn order, in which case it makes sense to have CI up since you'll be more concerned with nukes to fulminate alliances. Since you'll be nuking heavily during an alliance with ITC, it makes sense to have CI running with the ITC burns in this case as well.

    I have my personal reasons as to why i don't shove CI in my "Burnzzz" hotkey as yet another added /alt activated line. However, from a casual/non-raid standpoint - you most likely should in order to not forget to use it and at least make use of it regardless of how many nukes you end up consuming with it. I'd say that in both group and raid scenarios, it's used this way at least 95 percent or more of the time really.

    Keep in mind that if you're doing other things in between (CC'ing or other non-DPS activities) and using CI when not ITC'ing that you'll have a miserable time consuming all the procs of it. In short, it's best used when you have ITC up.

    I will re-updated the aDPS and DPS sections to include it after ToL launch.
    Metanis likes this.
  11. Vumad Cape Wearer

    If it is a flat 10%Crit damage increase, then that 10% increase would be the same anytime you use it. Using it with Twincast or not shouldn't change anything since you get a set 27 procs. Unless the AA is wearing off before getting a chance to use all 27 counters?

    Unless that 10% crit damage multiplies with other modifiers, then it would seem like the most advantageous use of it is the crit% rate. Using CI at a time when you crit rate is near 0% (52% actually) due to down time seems like it would offer more total benefit than using it when crit rate is 100%, thus completely wasted, for a 10% increase in damage.

    So I guess my questions are... Does the 10% get calculated at the beginning (so IOG multiplies that 10% to a higher number) or the end (10% is 10%) and does the 10% damage used with other abilities modify it enough that using the 10% crit dmg could make up for sacrificing a time when you could have an extra 30% crit rate.

    Not being argumentative, I don't know.
  12. Sancus Augur

    The 10% (20% at max rank it looks like) is additive with any other critical damage modifiers. IoG is 170%, for example, so IoG and Calculated Insanity would be 180%. On a full burn, with full ADPS you can get up to 200% (base) + 355% (passive) + IoG (170%) + Great Wolf (110%) + Glyph (60%) + Fierce Eye (17%) + Luck (40.5% * 50% chance) = 932.25%. You can see 20% is relatively small on top of that. On the other hand, with full ADPS, the number of times you can benefit from more than a small fraction of the critical chance is small.

    One thing worth noting is the critical damage is not a focus and has nothing to do with the counters, other than the whole buff fades when the counters are gone. The counters will only be consumed by spells with no duration (so Mindrift, not PG). The critical damage works on the DD portion of PG and procs while the buff is on.

    I'm not an Enchanter, so suggesting the optimal way to use it is not something I can do with certainty, but the above is how it works mechanically.
    Rexa likes this.
  13. Rexa Ask someone else for buffs

    Edit: see my response below.

    Thanks Sancus!
  14. Rexa Ask someone else for buffs


    Thanks for confirming. I was not sure if both IoG and CI crit strength modifiers stacked to be honest. I was reading conflicting things in the past.

    This means I should modify the full burn to include CI no matter what then. I had the right original idea :D :D

    Thanks for the good question Vumad.

    Edit:

    I have decided to update all Enchanter guides to be ToL ready. It was an easier process than I thought.

    1. I included spell rotations for alliance-hungry enchanters (3 nukes)
    2. I updated the full burn order.
    3. I clarified better on CI in the DPS guide.
    4. I corrected some minor misinformation in some places after some thoughtful discussions with other enchanters over the last few weeks.
  15. Vumad Cape Wearer


    I have to both agree and disagree with your conclusion from Sancus's post. The Crit DMG does not multiply with other aDPS.

    I believe on a FULL burn, like Zlandicar, that using CI with everything else can make sense, as the fight would be over before timer are gone on the aDPS Crit rate, and stacking the DMG on top while losing the crit rate is better than not using the ability at all losing the DMG too.

    However, on longer fights, like Tantor, it would benefit us more to Cycle our burns, making the most total damage output over the entire event the bigger benefit, so using CI off rotation to maintain a high Crit rate for the longer event would yield a higher amount of total event damage than using it with full aDPS. Also, since it is a counter and works with PG, it's ideal to spam PG/Rift (big nukes to multiply against, worth the mana), unless another ENC casted alliance, in which cast the alliance nukes are more total DPS due to the alliance proc.

    I believe based on Sancus' post that CI would be the most conditional of all of our burn abilities. However, Sancus did clarify one thing beyond a doubt. Not using the CI at all during the event is the one definitive wrong way. So for ENC who understand it, make the call based on what is happening when it is happening. For ENC who do not understand it, just make sure it gets used.
    Metanis likes this.
  16. Rexa Ask someone else for buffs

    Hmm. I don't think i said multiplied anywhere. The crit strength modifier percentage from CI plus the crit strength modifier from IoG are both simply added.

    The 20% from CI + the 180% from IoG = a 200% total crit strength modifier. These are added percentages, not multiplied. PS. These are ToL values just so people can get accustomed with them since ToL will be out in 2 days.

    Either way, it's not something that I think anyone can personally tell outright someone else when to use. Considering it has a 20 minute refresh, and if you're bouncing from one event to another rather quick, it might not be up for when you need it. Everyone's raid make-up will be different. I personally would rather use it with an ITC up, but that's my opinion...
  17. Rexa Ask someone else for buffs

    Hmm. I don't think I said multiplied anywhere. The crit strength modifier percentage from CI plus the crit strength modifier from IoG are both simply added. Consider the following:

    The 20% from CI + the 180% from IoG = a 200% total crit strength modifier. These are added percentages, not multiplied. PS. These are ToL values just so people can get accustomed with them since ToL will be out in 2 days.

    I don't understand what you mean you are "losing" here. You are not losing anything. Whether you are using CI with ITC or using it without is irrelevant in this statement. You're capped over the crit chance DD rate in both scenarios. Unless I misunderstood your thoughts there.

    I don't understand this statement. To maintain a 10% crit strength modifier for a small period of time is very miniscule thing by itself for an Enchanter. You're not a druid, wizard nor mage that can reasonably pair other abilities during non burns to actually make a legit impact on "total damage output" with CI. And here is why: A majority of your total damage output, if you were to examine it throughout the course of an event via a parsing program, should not even be from your nukes directly. It should be from DoTs/Grips or from fulminating back to back alliances. In which case neither of these things have anything whatsoever to do with CI.
  18. Vumad Cape Wearer

    My point was that the crit DMG is insignificant, as you also pointed out, and using CI with ITC, GW, Spice and Fierce Eye means that the only benefit you are getting from CI is the DMG modifier. The Crit RATE modifier is wasted because of being well over the 100% cap. ITC doesn't benefit CI since a twincast would consume 2 counters, except to use up the cast count faster. CI Crit DMG modifier doesn't multiply, it's a flat 10% extra Crit DMG no matter when you use it, so the DMG modifier is not an important consideration of when to use CI, except as to be sure to use it.

    However, it makes sense to me, to primarily focus on the Crit RATE modifier when making the decision to use CI. As those big burns fades off, and we get into a Crit RATE modifier lull, where we are below the Crit RATE cap. Say the only modifier we have is Fierce Eye, we are at 58% base + 15% FE = 74% Crit RATE, so using CI at this time would allow CI to contribute 26% Crit RATE %.

    I see the following as general examples...

    A FULL burn call includes CI (Zlandicar).
    A Rotation burn call would be IOG, then Spire, then CI during a Crit RATE lull (Tantor).
    An event over 20 minutes might mean to use CI early, to use it twice, but that is rare (Avatar of War?).

    What I did for my Gina triggers, which are similar to yours but not quite the same, is the aDPS burns add a count down timer that has the Crit RATE % listed. I quickly noted after doing this that I have 4 bars at the beginning of the event, but only 1-2, sometimes none, several minutes into the event. When I have few or no aDPS bars up, I click CI.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm off base. I have changed a number of things this week. It is yours and Sancus' contributions that lead to these changes. Not afraid to make changes when other people have better ideas. Pursuing healthy discussion here.
  19. Vizier Augur

    RE the enchanter guide section: I have a video tutorial on reverse charming that while old, still applies to modern content. If you want to put a link to it somewhere on your page that would be cool. If not that also cool thanks again for the nice free content.

    Fanra, Rexa and code-zero like this.
  20. Rexa Ask someone else for buffs

    More than happy to add your link Vizier soon! Im trying to rework some layouts first. Thanks for sharing for the community!
    Vizier likes this.