Reversing the power level

I have always thought the shroud system was broken. I want to play my toon. Tune me down (or tune me up in this squire idea) to match a level. Let me use my normal buttons, just be more or less effective.

Funnily enough, this system exists in Everquest 2 with the Chronomage system, so it's not like they don't have any ideas about how to create it. There is even an entire series of rotating quests that give (cosmetic) rewards for going back to old zones

They used to have instances where you play another char and earn nice rewards for your main. Druid/Shaman rez clicky stick was a reward of such missions. I think players get tired of such situations over time, but having one such instance, and allowing a level 1 to group with level 120s in such an instance would be a way to cross the level barrier.

That is a very difficult propositon - to tune down your current character. How to tune lvl 115 raid-geared warrior down to lvl 70 shrouded warrior ? What to do with those above-lvl-70 AA's both passive and active ? What about disciplines ? What gear to give to that lvl 70 shrouded warrior instead of current lvl 115 raid gear? At what point will is stop being "play my toon" and becomes playing some strange lvl 70 warrior ?
An avalanche of questions for what? For a nominal match in class/race/name appearance ?
I am already drowned under that avalanche.

And to remind all: currently shrouds are overpowered beyond any balance. At level 5 or at level 70 a shrouded character can pop that journeyman 5 tank mercenary and the game becomes trivial.

Overall, I am at a loss why people still talk about some form of level mismatch in groups for newer characters. It takes 3-4 casual evenings at most to bring a new character to lvl 85. And whoever is making a point that they do not have a high-level locomotive to PL them - then there is no mismatch problem, it's just plain leveling up.

Also, unlike circa Y2K EQ these days alot of leveling can be done by questing, not by countless mob killings. For example, RoF is full of tasks, giving a set amount of experience (not a level percentage) and those tasks do not lock until the final hail (the most famous - Falmonius book quest). So the tasks can be transferred from lvl 115 to lvl 70 via intermediate step of some task-holder of level 85-100.
At lvl 70 Falmonius book quest gives 1.5+ level per turn-in. And there is several RoF quests like that. Literally - from 70 to 75 in under an hour. Repeat in 6 hours for less spectacular results.

Having all that in mind - why developers should spend much efforts on gameplay worth of a couple of days per character ? What they should be doing - providing replayable content. Like they did in CoTF, TBM and in part - TDS. It was benefitial to do those missions again and again. For various reasons and benefits, but it's a replayable content.
I like ToV progression, I liked doing it several times for all my alts. Very much FUN! But done once and the interest deflates. Sure, repeating Griklor mission a zillion time is rewarded with augments, but it is not actually fun. I woudld much preferred to get rewarder with mission coins in ToV progression, which I could spend on gear/augs like in CoTF or TBM. Every player has different preference, so everybody could chose different missions to repeat. It's more interesting that farming this or that rare mob for hours at a time.

Just thinking out loud here.

And you sound like a boxer who is entirely self sufficient rather than a player who is moloing their way to level cap.

Moloing works to around 65/70 then it gets much harder to do, some classes are excellent soloers so they will breeze right on by but others will have a tough time of it.

With the new level-raise of ToL anyone under 90 is not going to get XP with a level 120 anyway and a new heroic upgrade is yet to be confirmed.

So that leaves people who might be returning having to find someone to PL them because soloing in EQ consists of grinding out a lot of light blues or greens from an expansion older than the level you are working towards, there is little to no "current era" soloing in EQ in any expansion, everything is group based.

Things is that with ToV & the shift away from mob-grinding for XP that old catch up mechanic is going to become oppressively grindy and with time it will in the future become increasingly more difficult to find players willing to drag you through those missions you need to level in a reasonable time-frame.

How will players who finally reached level 110 manage moloing ToV levels once everyone else is already Level 145? That's going to suck a whole lot worse than moloing does already 70-110.

Investing in a Squire / SideKicking system removes the need to even bother with more Heroic Upgrade options, it can simply grow with the game into the future & mean players behind the curve are always able to get into a group, feel useful, and get levelling help from their higher level peers and they won't need to go paying for powerlevelling services any more either, the loneliness of catching up will be massively alleviated.

It also means everyone can experience the latest content right off the bat and that may even help increase sales of the newest expansion.

If it were possible to have something like the Old Man McKenzie characters available for different levels it might do work a bit better than the shroud system.

When it was first introduced the XP from shrouding down was equal to getting XP at your characters true level - but the devlopers, being idologically opposed to Max level characters getting good xp from anything except the latest content mean that the XP was rapidly nerfed down to "level appropriate for the shroud level" AKA utterly worthless to a max level character.

The other problem with shrouds was that it required higher level players donating their time to play alongside you on a template monster that wasn't even all that fun to play instead of the character they had spent years building up and combining that with getting such poor xp from doing so (level appropriate) that it was overall a complete waste of their time for a piss-poor reward.

That's why it was largely ignored and powerlevelling continued unabated, a few try hards maybe wanted to level all the moster shrouds just to satisfy some completist itch but after that, largely a useless system.
The only use I ever had for it myself was to Rogue Shroud to get the Dire Wolf Totem Quest from TSS as it let you side-step the faction gating and to level up the Gnoll Totem for the AC bonus, in every other way the Shroud system was a complete and utter waste of developer time.

If instead of the almost entirely useless shroud system EQ had invested in a Squire/sidekick system we may well have kept many more players in the intervening years.

I don't think so, it has much the same problem the shroud system does in that you are not playing the character you are invested in, this & the shroud sysyem don;t feel like you are playing EQ because you are not playing your real character, the one you built over years and feel strongly connected to & which you connect to the game through.

What "different levels" did you mean ? Shrouds are perfect for all purposes between levels 5 and 65. What would be better?

Self evidently for levels above 65....

Perfectly spoken, addresses the real concerns for EQ1's future viability. I even posted a thread about this same issue that returning players are just going to filter out at 110-120. Mixed reaction, but people that box enjoy the system because it caters to their playstyle.

Just wanted to add that this game has never solved why people would want to play together. It's always been better to box than it has been to group. The LFG system is non-existent, lockouts are too long, camping items is too RNG dependent, and previously it was less xp the more people you added.

So, they build up this game with the intent of it being social but everyone just builds a box crew to tackle the content. Solo/Molo is neglected because the game is intended to be played with others, but very rarely does anyone do that.

Shroud system is not just Gnoll Totem applicator. It is a very useful and efficient system for leveling up low level characters. All my alts were leveld up to 85 in a matter of a few evenings or within a weekend by using shroud leveling features.
And while doing so, I have PL'd numerous low-level characters ranging from returning guildmates, guildmate alts and just randon low-level returnees I just happened to meet in zones I was doing shroud PL'ing.
In fact shroud system is so effective, that my low-level characters remain low level for so short period of time (just a few evenings) that strangers barely have time to meet my team and tag along. And no, it's not a good reason to nerf it now.

And a returned player myself I did level up by moloing, at 60'ish level I went to Steppes, at 65'ish I went to the Buried Sea and completed my Heroic armor questline (very much rewarding), and at 75'ish I went to SoD until at early 80's I went to HoT's Feerrott. At that time I have had a group partner and a box, so there was no moloing since then. So, a returned player can work all the way up toward 85(and 90 soon) in present conditions, no special new features needed.

Im not interested in shrouding as a power-leveling tool, I want to enjoy the lower level zones and quests, that I missed(they didn't exist when my main was at that level), and still get a few AAs for for completing it.

I don't play alts, why can't my main do it, without falling behind the xp-curve...

Self evidently my lvl 95 shaman trader does the job just fine. From 65 to 85 the shammy PL's my alts, and guildies who need help - SoD, Fortress Mechanouts, Hot and RoF quests make an easy path from 65 to 85 in just 1 weekend. Again - so fast, that just random strangers have little time to come across my PL group.

Join a good guild. Lots and lots of people are willing to help. Be nice, and people will be generous.

Make a new toon, or use your main toon and just do those quests for almost no reward except enjoyment of doing those. Enjoyment is more valuable than AA's.

Doesn't work. Now, that you power-leveled them to 85, what are they going to do? They don't have any gear.

Depending on others to be generous isn't a reliable solution.

At 85 - join the power level train. Real POWER leveling, because now you can be groupped with max level players and join quests with them.
Specifically - at 85 each TBM Heroic mission gives close to 1 level per mission in kill experience. It slows down to about 25% of the level at lvl 90, but there is always a place in a static zone to slaughter lvl 105-108 trash all day long. And that is a very easy place - almost any lvl 115 can just solo PL.
And missions are rewarded with Remnants of Tranquility coins, which basically buy the best group gear for any level from 70 to 105.

At 95 the group can move toward ToV EW and start doing some quests (RZ earring first stage is doable at 95, as well as some other smaller quests). Intermix some Clayton Teek daily tasks for insane amount of experience and you can level up to 100 in a weekend or two.
And then the gravy train of ToV progression takes off. If you timed it right - during bonus weekend - you can go from 100 to 115 in 1 weekend.

Once again, current systems works just fine. If you have higher level friends (thus warranting the talk about level mismatch) then you can "catch up" really quickly. If you are a loner and a hermit - it still can be done, it will just take a very long and miserable time, EQ is not well desined for loners, never was, and probable never will be.

Wow, I'm sure the person being power-leveled is enjoying their AFK experience.

It depends, if you like being PL'd while AFK - it's your choice.
Most people I PL (besides my own alts) usually spend time chatting in the group and asking alot of questions about what I am doing and why and they learn about the game overall and tricks of PL at least. And we also make alot of jokes, which would be censores in open channels, so we have lotsa fun.
And they also learn about their own characters by trying different things with newly-available AA's and spells. You know - participating at their level, because they want to, not because they have to.
Although, they mostly have a very important job not to die in those high-level zones.

Nobody enjoys feeling like a severely ill crippled hobo within a team of top-tier 1st division supreme athletes decked out in designer duds giving them a leg up to the bleachers just to watch the game & getting absolutely murdered if a mob so much as farts in their general direction but that is what playing a lowbie 85 getting powerlevelled really feels like, only reason you don't notice or care is because you're also doing the PL.
All the banter is just them trying to cope with that feeling of uselessness they cannot escape - unless they AFK that is, which might explain why so many would rather do that.

Why not get rid of that whole s**tshow and have a sidekick/squire system so they can actually contribute? What's bad about changing this terrible "help the cripple" / "depend upon the charity of others" paradigm?