SK vs. Paladin Solo at 115

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Roguexx, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. Sindace Elder

    Taking SKs out of the equation entirely, are you saying the paladin class as a whole is underpowered as is? Or just underpowered compared to a similarly geared SK that can do things a paladin can't (without using glyphs, apparently)?
  2. Randomized Augur


    Fixed that for you

    The latter
  3. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    Having different things doesn't equate to imbalance, broken or them having bigger and better. You still serve every purpose you're supposed to and more. You also have tools that do insane things that per usual are just dismissed. Its only the flashy things you want that serve your agendas.

    Healing an entire raid, dismissed.
    Curing entire raids, dismissed.
    Stun locking content that can be, dismissed.
    Replacing a druid or serving as main healer in just about any setting, dismissed.
    Putting out dps class levels of dps on undead, dismissed.
    Tanking anything in game, using tools differently, dismissed.
  4. Randomized Augur

    And there's the proof that you haven't followed nor read this thread at all. We're not asking for what they have....I already mentioned that.

    Healing an entire raid, dismissed - no one is complaining about Paladins hybrid role as a healer. Paladins heal when not tanking, SK's DPS - they're performing their secondary hybrid roles when not fulfilling their main roles as tanks. Check.

    Curing entire raids, dismissed. - see above

    Stun locking content that can be, dismissed. - niche situation that seems to decrease with every xpac, but this is about one good thing paladins can do that no one else can

    Replacing a druid or serving as main healer in just about any setting, dismissed. - see the first two

    Putting out dps class levels of dps on undead, dismissed. - SK's do this regardless of mob type

    Tanking anything in game, using tools differently, dismissed. - Yeah see no one actually complained about whether we can or cannot tank. That was never the issue.

    The issues are:

    Single Target aggro: SK > Paladin
    AE aggro: SK > Paladin
    Damage output: SK > Paladin
    Defensive capabilities: SK > Paladin
    etc etc etc. see a pattern yet?

    No one is saying "oh I can't perform my role as a tank as a Paladin". It's "hey, i'm putting forth 2x the amount of work with my abilities to do the exact same thing SKs are doing with their abilities".


    I don't want SK's 2.0. I don't need SK's taps. It doesn't need to be identical, it doesn't need to be better, but it would be nice my aggro grabbing ability was a bit closer in numbers to that of my SK brethrens.

    If an SK goes up against a mob, puts forth 50% effort and has an 90% survival rate, then a Paladin should be able to go up against the same mob, put forth 50% effort and have a higher survival rate than 40%. We want that 40% to be closer to that 90% of the SKs. We do not want the exact things they have, we just want our capabilities to be similar.
    Thren and Maedhros like this.
  5. aozs Augur


    The glyph discussion is only about bragging rights, really.

    Glyph takes out a major component of the survivability aspect of a solo challenge, making it much less of an accomplishment. That's because skill expression in EQ is basically finding cool strategies/tricks to solve challenges, and if the cool strat is basically "press glyph and lol" then it's not really interesting. Unless there's something being done that isn't possible without the glyph.

    You could say SK solo accomplishments aren't as impressive either, because "press epic and lol", and I'd agree. This thread makes it pretty clear that SK > Pal when it comes to big solo challenges which was the original topic.
    Maedhros likes this.
  6. Maedhros High King

    Paladins out-healing druids is entirely a druid problem. Druids are the only priest class without a splash heal. This is irrelevant to the conversation about balance between sks and paladins when it comes to SOLOING like the Effing title of the post says. Learn to read.
    The only mobs that are stunnable are trash mobs. There has not been a raid or mission boss that you can stun in a decade. So yea when I pull a dozen mobs I can keep 1 of them nearly fully stun locked if they are even stunable. Its not an AE stun, so its pretty freakin irrelevant. People who arent playing paladins like to talk about our stuns, like they are some kind of ridiculously powerful tool, but nearly all the high end paladins are telling you that we hardly ever load them because they have niche usefulness. Do you think its a conspiracy or something?
    Not much curing going on while we're soloing. So I'm sure you can agree that that has nothing to do with balance while soloing.
    The conversation doesn't care what most melee classes would like for personal burn dps tools, because they aren't a part of the title of the thread. But just to humor the absurdity of your arguments, hell ya everyone would love Pureforge and Valorous Rage, but I'm dead certain that they wouldn't like all the rest of the things that come with being a paladin that drives our need for those personal tools to be so good. You think a berserker is going to make the trade for the entire paladin dps set when the result would mean that they can top the parse on an undead burst raid, and then be last on every single other raid?
    You have no idea what you're talking about. Please close the door on your way out.
    Fenthen likes this.
  7. Lucio001 New Member

    Does anyone remember this?
    After reading the responses to this "not a troll" question. Paraphrasing the immortal words of Jim Downey are the only way I can think to summarize what transpired.

    Mr. Thread what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone who has read this thread is now dumber for having glanced at it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
  8. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur


    Boils down to I want their blue square lolli while hiding your red round lolli behind your back. Making up whatever they have to along they way to justify it.
  9. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Sounds like Paladins aren’t willing to accept the trade offs of their class.
  10. Maedhros High King

    There are tons of great things about being a paladin, but again, the topic of this post is SK vs Paladin soloing.
    I don't see why you guys are struggling so bad to understand this.
    SKs are hands down, totally, without any shadow of a doubt, leaps and bounds ahead of paladins in the solo department.
    The only way that paladins can narrow the gap is by using Glyph and its still a large gap in favor of the SK.
    End of discussion.
    Skrab likes this.
  11. Triconix Augur

    You're not a very intelligent individual, are you? This has nothing to do with a pally wanting what an SK has. It has everything to do with a pally wanting their stuff to be comparable to what an SK has.
    Maybe he likes Willy Wonka movies?
    In order to accept trade-offs, there must first be a trade-off to begin with. When a single class is far superior in every aspect of said discussion, what is there to accept? Solo tank? SK wins. Group tank? SK wins. Raid tank? SK wins (I'm not including wars in this). The only thing a pally wins at is a non tank-oriented role, but rather their healer counterpart: raid healing. However, SK is superior dps in most cases so that's a legitimate trade off between the non-tank aspects of the knights.
    Fintank and Maedhros like this.
  12. Ozon Augur

    As a SK, I am going to agree with the Pallys here, in that an equally geared Pally vs SK, the SK will win solo almost every time. On undead I suppose its debatable, but considering that the 2 classes can wear EXACTLY the same gear, the gap is a bit unreasonable, I am not saying it shouldn't exist. I believe that SKs (shocker) have always been a bit less group oriented class and thus yes should be ahead. That being said its shouldn't be a blow out, if we say a SK is a 9/10 as a solo class, Pallys should be around 7/10, gap yes, but reasonable.
    Maedhros likes this.
  13. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    I'm just here to serve Cazic, while minions of Brell and Innoruuk squabble.
    Ozon and Maedhros like this.
  14. Randomized Augur

    And raid healing doesn't fall under the solo paladin vs the solo sk discussion either.

    The bare bones of it all is: an SK with his tool set with survive better and longer than a Paladin and their toolset.

    A Paladin trades dps (the longer a fight goes, the less likely you are to win) for their heals
    An SK increases their dps (thus lowering the duration of the fight and likeliness of dying) by using their heals

    A Paladin loses out on survivability by going on an offensive burn
    An SKs survivability increases on their offensive burns

    Solo encounters favor an SK. Just simply how it is. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop or wanting to stop playing my Paladin. But closing the gap between the two definitely wouldn't hurt my feelings any.
    Maedhros likes this.
  15. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    SKs who make it in RoI are generally good to great at their class. They get bored and quit. Paladins who make it in RoI are generally good to great at their class. None of us quit. We just get morose and depressed and fatalistic about how bad our aggro stinks in raid settings!

    Kidding, kind of. Paladins are great. I hope the massive aggro boosts in beta means we are better at quickly getting aggro in raid settings where dps explodes on adds the instant they spawn. Other tanks aggro are also exploding, but I don't care if we're third in aggro, as long as we're ahead of non-tanks.

    Now, poorly played SKs are FAR above and beyond a poorly played paladin. SKs really are that awesome.

    Would it make that dofus posting all this dribble happier if instead of asking for comparable tools (reavers bargain) we just asked for SKs to be nerfed down to paladin level instead?
    Warpeace and Maedhros like this.
  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Side comment: Which class do you see the most as a rotating door in RoI?
  17. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Hard to really think of any as a revolving door. DPS in general flames out the most but that encompasses a lot of classes and they are the easiest to get raid ready, so people come in not knowing what they think they know, and with parsing are the easiest to evaluate.

    Enchanters probably.
  18. Maedhros High King

    Poor chanters. Damn yoyo of massive overpoweredness one year, followed by massive nerfs.
  19. Hellowhatsyourname Augur

    I very rarely solo for solo'ing sake, but when I'm boxing a few toons and my healer dies, I rarely get concerned because epic + self-healing on the SK is so strong that I can just keep doing what I'm doing. Worst case scenario is I pop a disc or ... if I had pulled a huge train or something... a glyph to stay alive.
  20. Warpeace Augur


    Yup. but don't tell the other SK.