Locked doors (that require lockpicking)

EQ lost to WoW as the predominate MMO because things were miserable with no solo content. The game doesn't need lockpicking. It was a dumb mechanic in 1999 its a dumb mechanic in 2021. Things like that are great in well thought out, planned DnD style gaming, not pick up group, couple hours of winding down after work, video style game play.

Non masochistic human beings don't want misery, we want to have fun with the limited time we have to play.

And dont even get me started on foraging.

Well, it does make sense that if there exist locked doors, then there would also exist a key to that lock.

That key could either be a quest-reward or a mob drop(or even crafted...). Im fine with lockpicking being a bypass for certain doors, but it doesn't makes sense it is the only way to pass them.

If you want to emphasize the grouping aspect, then let it require a group to get the key...

There are other doors, with keys that require groups to acquire.

For historical context, when those rogue-only (later: rogue/bard only) doors were introduced, rogues were by far the lowest of the dps classes and, unlike the other classes, they lost most of that dps when attempting to solo. Reserving a few small areas for rogue-only access -- while leaving 95% of content freely available to all -- was intended to make rogues more desireable in groups, not simply to emphasize grouping in general.

And even today, 20 years later, when these doors first enter era on TLPs, it is the rogue class more than anyone begging for a group ... and it generally takes about 4.2 microseconds to find a rogue, if you really want one. That, apparently, is still too long for a certain class of player.

Speaking as a rogue that boxes a bard: locked doors can die in a fire, or have the AAAA work on them. I'm not your doorwoman to be opening doors at 2am because someone wants to go to a camp and doesn't have their own rogue.

Your version of the game allows another player to take control of your toon, and forcibly open doors? Odd, mine seems to lack that feature.

That's not what I said, and you know it. If you want to be deliberately obtuse, don't do it with my posts.

I have no desire to be getting tells from people - be they guildmates, strangers, or someone that sees me in the zone - asking me to open a door. If locked doors are put in a zone, they need to have a key somewhere, or be able to have the AAAA work on them.

Stop being a troll.

If you don't wish to get tells from people, ignore them. If that's too much work for you, play a single-player game. The entire rationale for an MMO is for people to interact, and game mechanics should reward people for interactions. The sheer fact that you despise even being asked to group with, or at least assist people who wish to visit these areas, is one of the most pathetic reasons I've ever heard for removing a game mechanic.

Pot, meet kettle.

I get tells from folks requesting if I can run out and unlock a door from time to time, or see the occasional hollar out in genchat, in which I am usually happy to go help. However, I am not always able to. But, it shouldn't be expected of me to drop what I am doing to go help someone out, either. I wish they would make the AAAA work on locked doors, but that also kind of defeats my posting that locked doors should be abolished even on TLPs, as the AAAA isn't until CotF.

Yes, the idea behind a MMO is for people to interact. However, I also played WoW, LotRO, KotOR, and other MMOs, and you would be surprised (though, hopefully not) at how anti-grouping these games are. You can solo your way through content, and the only time you require a group is to do "missions" or raids, and even then most of that is done via match-making. So, MMOs aren't as group-friendly as they are made out to be in this thread. In fact, EQ is probably about the only MMO that requires grouping to get through content.

Except EQ is probably the most anti-social MMO.

How about a lengthy questline that will give you the lockpick ability? Plenty of other class abilities have been spread around (and research), why not that? ibtl

There was one, it was the AAAA. Unfortunately it never saw any use outside of the heroic adventure.

It was also used in one of the Arx Mentis missions iirc. It was basically a clicky that could cast those trap/lock-related ldon spells.

I wonder if the AAAA would work in that mpg trial with all the chests?

Probably should go the way of Forage with a lesser AA version.

I think we have moved past the "entitlement argument." It is now more just a argument on whether DPG should keep the doors locked or open them. As I said before, they haven't required a rogue-pickable locked door in nearly two decades, so the skill is pretty useless (except for one Arx Mentis mission).

I’m all for making it more relevant. Make dungeons/missions more role-playing/lore-esque. Bring back traps/curses/danger. Make dungeons, dungeons. Not just “underground” tagged.

It's not punishing game play he's into, it's elitism. He lusts for the time when a group of nolife 24/7 EQ raiders who would log in at 3 am to kill a mob could kill all flagging mobs to prevent the rest of the server from progressing in era. Pretty much the same with the desire for 3+ month grind quests that require competition for spawns and raid forces, a chance to deny others so he can be video game special.

Kinda sad really.

I rather doubt it's 95%, and it's irrelevant in any case. Facts are not democratic. 95% of people once thought the Earth was flat, and 95% today may believe the Apollo moon landings were faked. That doesn't make it true. So instead of engaging in argumentum ad populum fallacies, how about we debate the issue at hand?

An EQ core design principle is that classes have different abilities, in a manner that forces them to rely upon each other. You (correctly) note that twenty years of whining has resulted in that principle being watered down dramatically, with all classes having nearly all the abilities of others. But you (incorrectly) conclude this means we should just allow the process to continue, and even encourage it. How about moving in the right direction, rather than the wrong?

You mean like clerics being pestered for resses? Should we then remove res from the game? The point is further off target in that rogues are usually asked to join groups that need doors opened, especially Kunark/Velious/Luclin TLP era, when such doors are most prevalent.

On the contrary, I've attacked the argument repeatedly, and suggested alternatives, from my very first post to this thread. Scroll back.

As for the ad hominem bit, I got called a troll for pointing out that (s)he can ignore requests (s)he doesn't wish to fill. I responded.

I understand what you’re saying, but I wouldn’t go that far. I’m just referring to the “I had to do it this way and it was harder than it is now and so everyone should have to do it this way” mentality. He’s against QoL improvements like the OOC Regen and would rather we go back to staring at a spell book for 10 minutes after every 2 mobs.

Yes, hell levels existed. I struggled to get through the 30s. I never did get a max level 50 character in era. And it wasn’t because the game was “punishing” in mechanics. It was on me. That was 20 years ago. I was 12. It was my first MMO. I didn’t know where to go after I hit 30. I didn’t have a group of friends to play with. I didn’t really know how to traverse community sites and what not. And sure, I spent awhile recovering some most exp from dying, but I also didn’t have the time to allocate to the game that involved 20%game play and 80% down time for the time I was logged in. That wasn’t difficulty. That was tedium.

So as I said, I’m all for the more “simplistic QoL changed game” that allows me to actually play, even if it requires more effort now than it did in the past

On this thread and many others, you generally surprise me with a rather astute observation. I'm going to expand on your point here somewhat. The beauty of EQ having multiple servers is that they don't have to try to find a middle ground on all issues: they can create different rulesets tuned for different customer bases. In my opinion, any time two different servers have the exact same ruleset, they're missing out on an opportunity.

I fully realize that EQ as a whole will never go back to the challenging game it once was. By definition, the current tiny fraction of players remaining are those who prefer -- or at least can suffer to stand -- the current ruleset. But that doesn't mean that a server with a somewhat more challenging ruleset would not attract and keep a strong following.

I said this thread. Not the games entire population. Just through the page or two I scrolled through quickly, I haven’t found anyone in this thread that agrees with you. So my 95% is actually giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I’ve advocated multiple times for increasing the relevance of iconic class specific abilities to be increased. How did you conclude that I’m wanting them water it down even more by spreading it out even more??? Here I’ll quote it for you:

There you go.

You’ve mentioned the removal of such abilities from the game as a whole multiple times. You’re the only one connecting being pestered to a complete removal of an ability.

Again, there is a difference between /1 any rogue available to unlock a door for me vs /t [name] can you open a door for me? I need someone with lockpicking.

No one is asking for a removal of an ability. They’re saying, just because I have an ability you require does not mean I am indebted to aid you. Just because I can PL people does not mean I’m required to do so, nor should I be pestered about it. Ask the community for help, and if someone wants to they will. Personal harassment is not required nor welcomed. Nor does me saying that I don’t want to deal with the public mean that I advocate for the removal of an ability.

Why you connect those two things together boggles me, but hey, to each their own. I can say no this time, and say yes next time. Saying no one time does not mean it needs removed from the game. I know you’re pushing hard to prove a point, but going to the extremes like that is a bit ridiculous sir.