I said it was inarguable, but you can certainly disagree, again, without any actual tangible proof. The only way a paladin can outagro a warrior with ae agro is if I blow all of my abilities at the same time. Then they are offline for several minutes. Meanwhile, you can run expanse almost full time, and utilize ae taunt, rampage, wade in to battle and tempest blades as needed. Warrior options are significantly better.
If that's what is meant then sure I agree. I never thought of it like that myself. Rather the value of hate override (or hate added) is applied regardless of the results of the spell slot effects. It replaces the base hate amount calculated from the spell slots. After that, the computed base hate amount is multiplied by active modifiers.
Yes and then the war/sk hits one more button and the paladin drops to (at most) 40% hate of either of them. A paladin can only hold aggro if the war/sk lets them do so. In the case of War, one Spike of Anger proc undoes anything a paladin attempted, thanks to SPA 455.
oh gimme a break. Your 3 direct AE buttons each have 1.5 minute cooldown, you listed buttons for warriors that have 3 minute cooldown, and paladins get Valiant every tick & Rune procs. Far be it from me to cast aspersions on whatever nonsense goes on in RotE raids, but SR's paladins are the default tanks for adds just because it's dumb to invest the resources out agroing their natural enemy magnetism. Cast more spells or something.
This is absolutely hilarious. "natural enemy magnetism". So then, your position is that warriors have worse ae agro options than paladins and that you are having a struggle keeping agro off.. not the sks, but the paladins? Ok bud. Push more buttons or something.
No I was saying I think the spell is worth using after your post where you said it wasn't even worth memming. I listed some non traditional uses that I have used, not something that's a first resort, generally I do go for splashes, sometimes it's down and I react accordingly. It's more utility than alot of our spells on my Spellbar, its certainly worth using atleast with how we have groups set up in my guild. As far as it being unorthodox: absolutely and I wasn't saying that's SOP or should be, but it can be helpful in some situations, especially since itncan be hotswapped because of no recast It's something that makes the ability more valuable than say memming a Nuke in its spot. Like the healing from the ability adds up over the course of a night if your heal team focuses on you, usually myself and an SK do all the add tanking, or the majority of them so I am getting constant heals,
Why would I struggle to keep agro off any other tank? I don't. Because a tank doing so would be stupid, not because doing so would be hard - for any tank.
Consider that the other paladin is tanking (and hurting) and others in the group also need a heal. Casting Burst / Light / Protective on the other paladin quickly accomplishes both heals while Harmonious is active. I'd even say it's clever and repeatable i.e. when Dicho and HoP are on cooldown for example.
I have delibarately not expanded my answer at first, because I wanted to see what you would say. You think I would say this without having proof behind this ? Szilent gave you an insight, I'm going to expand it. You list warriors abilities without having a look at the recast time, or at the power of it, or at how fast it runs out. In raids, it's better to use Precision, because even if the HoTT is low number, it's still better to have a heal than none. Even so, even if I was using Expanse, it's not running full time, the charges fire fast, it last at best 1 minute, and is down for 2 minutes. The direct comparison that produces 2 k + hate is Valiant Defense, that paladins are spamming, 6 sec recast time, 2 k + AE aggro around. Have you forgotten this Wulfhere ? Bewteen a passive ability that you cannot control and is down 66% of the time, and an active spell, with fast recast, which one is better ? Have you tried to hold aggro with Rampage ? lol, try it, and tell us how efficient it is. Area Taunt and Wade Into Battle are 5 min recast time, and Wade Into Battle isn't an aggro taking tool, it's a keeper, "Any melee strike that hit you has a chance to trigger an attention-drawing shout", you need to be hit before. The hate of this spell has been severly nerfed in 2017, going from 12 k to 3 k hate lol. Even so, 5 min recast time spell / AA is meh. Let's finish then with the high number fast recast AE aggro tools of both classes now. Paladins have two AA, Hallowed Lodestar and Beacon of the Righteous, both with a 1 min 30 recast time. The hate of the first one is 18 k + 8 k per tick for 3 ticks, so 18 + 24 = 42 k hate. The hate of the second one is 20 k + 10 k per tick for 5 ticks, so 20 + 50 = 70 k hate. Warriors have one disc, Tempest Blade, with a 45 sec recast time, for a hate of 23 k. To make a fair comparison, let's say each tank fire his AE aggro tool every 45 sec, and let's take 3 minutes fight At start, paladin click Beacon, 45 sec mark : Hallowed, 1 min 30 mark : Beacon, 2 min 15 mark : Hallowed, 3 min mark : Beacon, total hate = 3 x 70 + 2 x 42 = 294 k hate In 3 minutes, warriors will land 5 Tempest Blades, total hate = 5 x 23 = 115 k hate. I'm nice and let's say the warrior is clicking Warlord Fury before cliking Dragonstrike,when it's up, every 45 sec, it has an average aggro bonus of 45 % (18 sec of 80 % aggro mod, then 30 sec of 25 % aggro mod), so this becomes 115 x 1,45 = 167 k hate The downside of the paladin AE aggro AA is that it's limited to 8 mobs, but how many times in the game do you have to hold aggro over 8 mobs ? What about also the rune proc of knight weapon that produce AE aggro kinda often ? I think there are enough proof that Paladin AE aggro is not worst than Warrior AE aggro. In fact, I would safely say that Warrior AE aggro is atm the worst of the 3 tank classes.
I mean it's something we came up with when harmonious healed a much higher % of the HP bar, its definitely fell off abit in how powerful it is, it's not something we do all the time, but these are people I play with alot so we try things like that to see if we can cut corners or scrape out alittle more usefulness on abilities. But say the druid I usually am grouped with on heavier AE events, thats my best example she does it alot if we are taking heavy AE, pops a rejuvilation on me to get a harmonious proc, follows it with either clicking apothic hammy, or intervention depending on which is off CD and goes back to dpsing, knowing I'll cover the rest of the damage with a Wave or Splash. The fact it can crit and if I have a druid/bard (going back to my first scenario) and I'll be pretty close to 100% crit rate and also have an alliance proccing helps. Again not every fight, but if we have a really heavy AE fight or are low numbers it can certainly make their life easier (and I get a bard so win win) My paladin team mate example is alot more rare now, but during TBL when we would do the trial of three, we had all 3 Mephit tanks together in a group, my harmonious procs added up to a massive amount of healing over the course of that event since I was tanking 1. It's obviously not our best ability, but it's worth 1 spell slot on alot of events, it's value goes up in some situations goes down in others. If you get a cleric machine gunning you heals it let's them be really lazy on group healing and concentrate on just derping the multibind. Especially since the paladin can cover the gap with wave/Splash in addition to harm and alliance pulsing a heal every 2.4s (remedy + gcd) . Gimmicky sure, stupid: arguable but I like the spell it could be alot better obviously, but its not useless. It's kind of how I feel about alot of our spells, stuff like dicho/harm/Valiant have kind of stagnated and it would really nice if the base values kept up with hp pools
No I haven't. I'm the one who got Valiant fixed. I can spam Valiant and both War/SK can steal my mobs if they are not careful with their abilities. I have no such concerns as a paladin as I can blow my toolkit and not hold aggro against either of them. That is the imbalance.
Here's an example of spooky aggro lordship over paladins. Today. doing pick up raid of VP, Hoshkar event. I'm off tanking guardian from the start. The warrior who was tanking Hoshkar just yanks it from me, after 1 minute and from 50 feet away, with no visible effort when Hoshkar dies. My hate went from 100% to 1% instantly. This is routine for warriors and SK alike. A paladin does not have anything that can do that. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Warrior activates Aggravate Rk. III. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Hoshkar looks very angry. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Warrior activates Phantom Aggressor Rk. II. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Hoshkar is engaged by a phantom aggressor. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Hoshkar is struck by anger. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Hoshkar is struck by anger. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] A divine rain heals you. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Warrior healed you for 17370 hit points by Sincere Rain II Caza. [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] Your target is too far away, get closer! [Sat Oct 23 16:48:32 2021] A guardian of Hoshkar is pierced by Warrior's thorns for 17488 points of non-melee damage. It doesn't matter if a paladin has decent hate tools to build aggro when the other two tanks can reset that to 1% in an instant.
Are you attributing that loss to spike or aggravate or just in general the ability to create an overwhelming wave of aggro from all their abilities?
There is no log message touching the guardian so I suspect a taunt (SPA 199) ability (e.g. Area Taunt AA), but Szilent says that it's the event mechanic. Similar things happen with Tserinna, Klandicar, and Sontalak adds so shrug.
Like you will steal aggro of a war that is using Concordant Expanse, if you aren't careful with your abilities. Also you can grab aggro on a mob with your single target aggro tools, of a warrior who has just clicked Tempest Blade, with your single target aggro tools bind that generates more than 25 k hate. What are these raids you are doing where tanks are fighting for AE aggro ? Usually when a bunch of adds pop, tanks press AE aggro to get mobs of non tanks, then you cycle through the mobs to grab single mobs of the tank who has grabbed the most on him. I'm sure that a paladin using Beacon or Hallowed Lodestar can grab a wave of mobs from start.
How did we get side tracked from the video showing procs like steely causing concordant to fire? We just letting that one slide?
