Game is headed into wrong direction

I don't know about all the other stuff being bandied about in this thread, however, the "raids too easy"...

On Bertoxxulous:

Four raiding guilds. One is Australia based, so it is limited to those who can raid in a different time zone than USA.

One guild left another server this year and came to Bertoxxulous. They are the only guild on the server that has beaten all Claws of Veeshan raids.

The Australia guild has won seven of the nine raids. The other two guilds have won five out of nine.

This is after 318 days, more than 10 months after the release of Claws of Veeshan.

According to the OP, raids are too easy. I guess three out of four guilds just need to quit EQ because they are no good at raiding.

I am a grandpa, and I take pills. And calling me a grandpa, which is taking pills is NOT a stealth or open attack on me. Not at all. It's just calling things what they are. So, you are wrong in your assesment.

I do not feel offended or humiliated by that. Why would I? Am I that insecure about myself?
And in generel, why would I be offended by anything anybody calls me, anything at all? At most, even if I notice the "name calling", it is just an opportunity for me to hone my replying skills, if I chose to use it.

People need to grow much thicker skin. I miss good old days when people were much more reasonable and had sharper tongues.

Better, more attainable group gear might help.

Group content can be challenging for semi geared undergeared people, while others, who are in VoA gear vs the same content as a new Heroic character, which is like 500 HP/Mana/End better, but unattainable to the heroic can easily lead to differences of opinion on the risk / reward comparison on "group" content.

Feerott2 is House of thule, right? So what happens to players who go to Underfoot in heroic Gear? It's the previous expansion, but overtuned for the level range to the point where baseline tier 1 HoT is easier an expansion later.

Some rebalancing of "group" content / gear may help. Do we ever see "Solo" specific or "Molo" specific uproutes anymore?

The Serpent's Spine did it right. Having to run instanced dungeons over and over and over again should be for gearing, not leveling. Normal open world questing should cover that and beating all "single group content should leave a player ready for tier one raids of that expansion.

Raids with any form of 1 player can wipe a raid mechanic are game and guild killers.

The only times I've been in raid guilds that failed, it was a hangup on some mechanic where 1 player missing an emote from lag or whatever caused a chain failure. The only nights I ever had deaths over and over, and only times I've seen raidguilds hit the wall was where a single player or reaction to a singular event wiped a raidforce. It's demoralizing for all involved. 53/54 do it right, 1/54 lagged a second, or spilled their coffee= ruined experices for 54/54


I should add, in at least two of those cases, the person(s) wiping the raids were actually officers from another raidguild that apped alts. One was where the leader clique rerolled alts and joined another raid guild while still "leading" theirs.

In our house we refer to this as an L&L special.

If you think group content is "Too hard" - learn to play your class correctly (better).

As for raiders having trouble with group content - see my above statement.

And before anyone wants to put me on blast - I started EQ in early Sept 1999 and raided the original Hate/Fear and all of the content to present.
Gear doesn't solely make a player - KNOWING you class and how to play it ... now you are onto something.

Maybe you struggle with group content. Personally, all 4 group missions take about 30min. That really isnt a raider vs non-raider discussion. Some people are just not very good at the game and refuse to try to get better. It's fine because EQ as a whole isn't very difficult and people are free to have fun at whatever tier of play they desire.

Warm bodies actually doesn't really mean anything. There are boxers I have played with that I would take them 2-4 boxing over most of the mains I have met.

One of the overarching issues I see with players is that they believe since they have been logging in for 10-20 years, they know better and are doing the best things. That is simply not true for a huge portion of players. Take your eyes off the RoIs and SRs of the game and if you look at parses you'll see just a huge gap between some people of a class.

There is literally a post in the beta forums where someone states that Paladins are the best tanks. This person plays a shadowknight. They clearly are not playing their SK correctly if they don't see how absurdly strong they are.

TL;DR - Warm bodies or not, Players are bad and you shouldn't balance around the worst players in the game.

Game is more about group composition than any other game I’ve played outside CRPGs like Dos1/2, BG3, etc.

I've always kind of wondered for raid balance if something like a resurrected version of the Seeds of Destruction "Hard Mode" raids would be good.

So the raids all get designed for 36 players; "Hard Mode" is a version of the raid in which the DZ is capped at 36. Beating a Hard Mode drops a regular amount of loot + say 2 special "Hard Mode" tier items that are better than all normal tier raid gear. [One of the issues with Seeds of Destruction Hard Mode, is while it dropped top tier loot, it only dropped two items per event so it often wasn't perceived as being worth the time.] "Regular Mode" is the same exact content, but a DZ capped at 54, if you win you get the same regular loot as a hard mode clear, but don't get the 2 Hard Mode items.

Most likely the top 5-10 guilds would probably run 2 splits of the 36 man version (which has positives and negatives), but it probably stabilizes the bottom 25 or so guilds that frequently struggle.

Many people on this forums, myself included, were returning players in somewhat recent past. And many had the question where to get experience and gear at lvl 85 (same as a Heroic character has).
And all have found the answer at one place or another, in one zone or another. And many have discovered first-hand that Underfoot is an overtuned expansion for the level. So, HoT was an expansion of choice at 85 for most, even though HoT Tier 1 gear is basically equal to Heroic gear (just a notch better). And so the leveling started past 85.
But the OP doesn't was a slow gring, he stated before that he wants a quick path to end-game. And when suggested to buy PL services or to join a guild and get help from guildies he stated that he wants to do it molo.

Uproutes to what purpose? There is plenty of "Solo" or "Molo" specific uproutes to level 85, at which point it's possible to join the group with high-level players to experience group content. Nobody ever said that EQ can be or should be "winnable" by a moloing. And it is not. Gotta play in group content at least, but the OP demands it to be "molo"-able. And quick on top of it.
And again, as my own example, I leveled up by doing progressions, not mindless repetition of the same tasks. I have done good chunk of TBS, SoD, HoT, VoA, RoF progression, completed TDS, CoTF before I even bought EoK+ expansion. (back then TDS was the latest free expansion). It took me a while, but the OP stated that he wants it quick.

And wait for the OP to level up to 110 and discover TBL (seriously overpowered expansion, though with zone lock problems more than just mob diffuclty). And then going to ToV to discover trash mobs with double the HP and dps on top of overpowered TBL. And then even harder CoV, and by that time ToL (which has , by the way, milder trash than CoV). We'll hear no end of whining about the need for "catchup" expansion for lvl 2 to120 leveling molo.

N.B. I never has a problem obtaining good (not the very best though) gear, which was good enough for me to play and level up.

As an aside, if any of the Bertox raiding guilds need help figuring out how to beat any of these fights, just message me in game.

This. Wreckers asked a few things and I just gave them our whole strat.

Hard mode was awful. It’s like telling 30 people on your roster just don’t show up. Hard caps on raids aren’t great, because there’s not enough population to sustain the critical classes or raid leadership.

How come it can't be the other way around where raids needs to be toned down and group content out of the gates is easy.

With how it is now, every raider aiming to get past T1 raids gets past T1 raids ASAP
https://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/progress/index.php?expansion=COVOverall
Raid guild best of the best completes T1 2021-01-07
Medicore raid guild, completes T1, 2021-01-07
Before you start saying "what makes them medicore", well theres 15+ guilds. You telling me 14+ of them are just as good as the best of the best to complete T1 just as fast as they do?

Sounds like everyone gets 1st place trophy here in raids. No such thing as a real winner or people taking 2nd or 3rd.

Who completed T1 raids first? 15+ guilds did thats who.
Here is the first place trophy 15+ guilds, you all win!
Too easy. Thats it.
Raid content = JOKINGLY easy

Who completed T1 group content first month?
The raiders with full raid gear that did not struggle is who.
Casuals going into group content found it impossible.
Sorry if your not good/geared/AA'ed you lose in group content, you don't meet requirements. You lose. GROUP CONTENT = NO JOKE

Meanwhile
Group content
"raiders can't do it" gotta have it toned down, because they make GROUP content very difficult right out the gates of an expansion.

Do you see.
EverQuest Beta Raid Testing - Looking For Guilds
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-beta-raid-testing-looking-for-guilds.277714/

For CASUALS? GROUPERS?
Nope.

They just go ahead make sure the raids are very easy for raiders (nothing to do with raid gear vs group gear, this is raid content for raiders vs group content for groupers, not raiders complete group content quicker than groupers) Honestly I don't care how raiders complete it vs groupers, I care about GROUPERS/CASUALS completing GROUP content

But again,
Do you see,
Beta testing "need to make sure group/casual content" Gotta make sure nameds are easy for groupers/casuals to do, gotta make sure grouper quests are easy for groupers/casuals to do.


Let me guess, they do GROUP content with the 50+ raider guilds they get from beta.
Have RAIDERS go through casual/group content.
smh
Nononono,
that is EXACTLY why

This happens, people in FULL RAID GEAR, struggling with group content.
What you think groupers doing the group content feel?
NOTHING for them outta the gates, because it has to wait to be scaled down.

Meanwhile, raids out the gates, 15+ guilds finish T1 ASAP, too dang easy, no need to scale it down, it was checked in beta, made ezpz before the expansion went live.

Meanwhile groupers/casuals have to wait days/months/years for that GROUP CONTENT to be scaled properly


TRADITIONAL EQ,
You wont complete this raid for days/months/years
Group content, you can do whatever you want besides raids, if you have 6 warm bodies

PG era EQ (today)
Raid content, you can do whatever you want with 50 warm bodies, 100% success
Group content, have to wait days/months/years just for it to be scaled/toned down properly for casuals

"Game is headed into wrong direction"

So your saying, raids should be so every raid guild completes it, otherwise people quit.
But why is group content, hard even with full raid gear people?

Why is it raids its totally acceptable for it to be easy
But group content, hard and the community likes to make excuses about "get good casual player, get your AAs casual player, get gear casual player"

Sounds like casuals are getting ready for raids, not group content. When doing group content.

But raids, its never about gear/AA/ getting good, its totally ok that they are easy, just need 50 warm bodies and 100% success.

Only group content AA/gear/getting good is required.

THAT is where "game is headed into wrong direction"

TRADTIONAL EQ
Oow released GROUP CONTENT
Well I'm lvl 60-65, thats ALL that matters. Sure it maybe rough, but its doable.
Bazu Bonesmasher, Wall of Slaughter T3/comparable zone.
Doesn't do anything raidlike on casuals

CoV/ToL released GROUP CONTENT
Well gotta be good, gotta have AAs, gotta have slower/thisandthat in the group, gotta have gear, gotta have ....

CoV nameds, its gonna banish the heck outta you, adds are coming, this and that, RAIDLIKE group content.

Meanwhile, actual raids, EZPZ
Its like they forcing RAIDS onto casuals, every single content in the game has to be RAIDLIKE, GET GOOD like.
Meanwhile the raids raiders do, EZPZ.

How about you move that GET GOOD content back into the area where you TRADITIONALLY had to GET GOOD, which was in the RAIDS.
And move (GET GOOD) OUT OF group content/CASUAL content to where its suppose to be, in raid content.

This thread proves one thing-

Every game that has ever been created in history has been easy for some, hard for others.

See, he is an expert in raiding now.
Demagogue extraordinaire. Masterclass !

unfortunately, the "grouping" people i meet across all servers, are ususally not able to click abilities, or are useful even to a fraction of what a merc is. I would say that a step above cold bodies, maybe lukewarm, is what we are dealing with here. I group with an enchanter the other day, he didnt know he had to click things, and even when i told him he still didn't, and just went afk for like 30 minutes without telling anyone. This is more or less a daily occurrence.

I hope they just continue tune it to the people that test it, because those are the people that care about the future of the game and are really putting the time in to work with developers and create something.

#1 Group content being very very difficult = There are different levels of group content and the difficulties of that content varies.
The open world stuff / Kiting that you like to so was very possible in CoV. not every zone but that was the same 10 years ago.
The group missions 10 years ago always took a group when they 1st came out the same as with COV. and the group mission were all beaten in the 1st day so they are not to hard.
The hard part that raider struggled with at 1st was the /ach from the group mission. FYI these should be hard because it an achievement to show you pushed hard to get it. Also once people where geared and strategies were discovered these because not that hard as well.
With CoV they also put the vender aug on normal named so that you didn't need to do mission to get anything out of CoV. This open it up to anti social people like your self that just want to solo had access to all group loot.
As for the group quest the only zone people struggled with was DN and so for most of the content anyone was able to do. DN took more effort but was still do able I was able to run all my toon threw it 2 boxing and the only 1 task I need help was the one where the break in out of the water was nasty but once the camp was broken it was easy to keep cleared.

#2 You said raids are not hard enough. I Disagree, you are comparing todays content to 10 years ago and it not apples to apples.
1st 10 year ago you had double to triple the # of guild that means you had a lot more players that were playing and a number of them were for lack of a better word causal and less skilled. If you play on a TLP for example what used to take people months to level to 50 is done in a few days. This is mostly because people know the game have refined their skill and know what to do.
The same can be said for the Raiders on live today. We taken and refined our skills to the point that the player performance has over all greatly increased.
2nd BETA testing. many of the guilds today beta test and learn the events before they are released. In beta we struggle, we work on strategies and we die over and over. Because of this when you see guild beating it on day 1 it because they put in the work.

With both of these points you can see more causal raiding guild struggle with the events. But once they put in the time and effort and get gear they are able to down the events. Some guild don't make it all the way.

If you are to change this to make it harder for the top guilds so they struggle you will make it impossible for the causal guilds. An example of this would be meratis event. This was an event that the top 3 guilds struggled with and only the top 3 were able to beat it pre-nerf. Those guild pushed hard daily to beat the event. It then had the be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed so that other guilds could beat the event. To this day there are some guild that have not beaten it.

If they were to make all raids like this you would see a decline in raiders because people want to win and when your not able to win events people move on. 1 -2 hard events for T3 is ok as it pushes people to become better.

In the end you have few players today then 10 years ago. the people that play today are in 3 groups.
Causal players that are able to do most everything over the year.
Hard core players that complete everything in the first day to month of it opening up.
Anti social: these players are not able to do much and struggle with the game. They often turn to the forms to troll and QQ.

If the devs are going to get valid testing for raids they are going to need groups that are currently working together and doing that content. For group testing that is not an issue and as everyone who wants to take part in beta can do it with a simple preorder there shouldn't be an issue finding players to test group content.

I'm not going to read the rest of this manifesto to mediocrity, but I just want to point out that you're using a leaderboard that only the guilds who care and push hard to beat content as quickly as possible *and are able to* even really use. Your conclusion is flawed because of a sampling bias in your initial data set.

Well if the grouping people you come across are all like this.

Maybe it means GROUP content needs to get scaled down more.
Casuals are not raiders, meaning dont make casual content difficult like raids

Is casual content difficult like raids?
Back to the quote.

Casual content,
1. Have to worry about banish?
2. Mobs hit very hard like TRUCKS, for real for real, no joke in this (who hits like trucks traditionally? Raid mobs do thats who)
3. AE is too powerful
4. Avoid a cube in the middle of the battle? Huh?
5. Adds are waiting at the banish area???

Sounds like this is a raid.
Oh this group content, mindblown, I felt like you was getting me ready for a raid.

Meanwhile,
casuals people come across, are pretty dumb.

I can tell you one thing, theres not many casuals in this game.
Maybe because game is too difficult?


Casual content, casuals being told GET GOOD when they're just doing casual content. It's not like they trying to raid, and do content that is suppose to be difficult and failing. They're doing content meant for them, and they're failing, being told GET GOOD.


Playing casually during Oow, when Oow was released. Is WAY WAY different than play casually in CoV.

Oow, I wasn't told constantly "get good, get aas get gear" it was doable
CoV, get good, get gear, get aas, get this and that.... All in CASUAL content.


There's NOTHING easier than casual content, its already the lowest of lows. And you saying "Get ...."

Meanwhile raids, perfectly fine for any 50 warm bodies, 100% winrate for sure.