Request: Guild Leaders of Guild Neighborhoods to evict players no longer in the guild

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fenthen, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Lianeb Augur

    Yeah because un-enforcable rules work well.

    Guild Leader: Hey player1 the guild doesn't allow members to have a rent free house in our guild neighborhood
    Player1: So
    Guild Leader: Don't be an A** and remove it, it's not allowed
    Player1: No
    Guild Leader: If you don't remove it i am going to guild remove you
    Player1: /guildremove
    Player1: So what are you going to do now?
    Guild Leader: Nothing I guess
  2. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Sucks to be you. Well not you, but an actual Guild Leader with this problem.

    It's funny you chose to speak up in here. Being from the guild who's leader tried so hard for an evict button, forum alting, and getting all you little officers to post in the thread, trying so hard to forum quest up an evict button.

    But simple facts are simple.

    It's always been this way since the beginning of the guild writ. All your GLs forum tears over years of trying, have not got a change made.

    They aren't going to spend time and money to write code so a tiny number of GLs, who have this problem, can evict people at will.

    There are a whole lot of GLs who don't have this problem. So maybe ask them, how to recruit members that follow rules?
  3. Warpeace Augur

    Yet they added an Usurp command to the game, something exactly inline with an evict request.
    Fenthen and Windance like this.
  4. Zanarnar Augur

    Even though this could likely get some of my old toons evicted, I can't help but agree with this.. with a few catches. Only the Guild leader should be able to do this, and it should require the person no longer be a member of the guild for a shortish period (call it 2 weeks? seems long enough to resolve bugs/etc with membership before it could be an issue).

    I'm against automatic removal due to bugs and the aforementioned hotheads on either side. Its the guilds neighborhood, I don't see any reason they shouldn't be in control of who gets to remain there. This way someone who left the guild on friendly terms and is still considered a friend, could be left there; where toublemakers or players who long ago quit can be removed to make room for current members.
    Fenthen and MasterMagnus like this.
  5. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    Thank you for talking some sense in here.

    I like your proposal in theory. I would humbly submit that they still will not do this, but kudos for proposing a more interesting solution.

    If you wanted, maybe you could even flesh out some details?

    When evicted where does the escrow go? (To the evictee and 'owner' no matter who put currency in there I assume.)

    This function removes housing no matter the escrow situation? (So it works on free rent houses too? Unlike just giving them 90 days which doesn't work on free rent.)

    This function ignores all but the single person listed on the plot? (What if you try to evict someone who has alts still in the guild, that have full access to the house? Is the access list of the house of consideration at all?)
  6. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    You're going to go with this as your best supporting argument?

    Seems pretty weak, but let's see how convinced the devs are. ;)
  7. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    Crap I remember that guild, and I knew at one time who that was, but I can't remember anymore.. been gone from Luclin 3+ years now.. I've forgotten that one.
  8. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I thought everyone get evicted automatically if they where offline for 90 days?

    What is a rent-free house and why is it relevant in this discussion? You rent the real estate where the house is placed, not the house itself? or have I misunderstood something? :confused:
  9. Lianeb Augur

    Rent Free Houses pay for the Plot, the ones people are talking abo

    I find it funny that you find it funny that you think your opinion on a topic is the end all be all. It's easy to take the side against a great change then claim the "I told you so" side when it isn't changed.

    You can read through almost all your comments in bug reports or game suggestions and you echo the same sentiment in all of them.

    FYI YOU are not the deciding factor for any change in Everquest, so stop acting like your opinion matters more than others.

    And further, what the heck does being in a specific guild have anything to do with the topic at hand, it just makes you sound weird
    Fenthen, Stymie and Elyssanda like this.
  10. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    You poor thing. Bad Magnus Man triggering you?

    You're totally wrong. Don't even act like you read anything I've written. You didn't even read everything I said in this thread.

    MY OPINION: You SHOULD have the ability to evict from a guild neighborhood (you own).

    I'm THE ORACLE around here, I predict the future with great accuracy.

    MY PREDICTION: They will never give you an evict button. That has been my prediction for 3 years and continues to be correct 24/7 365.

    Your memory must be bad. Because I remember in the Double Dip Loot Lockout thread, you posting about how that was a technique your guild uses to distribute loot the way you want (or we were just drunk and fooling around, whatever you claim).

    I said at the time, "If this is something that's a boon to guilds and the devs don't care I wouldn't dream of having them remove it". But the DEVS cared, and the DEVS removed it.

    My opinion holds no more water with the devs than yours. But keep in mind, your opinion holds no more sway than mine with devs either.

    Lucky for you, my opinion and yours are the same on this topic.

    But they are still never going to make an evict button. Period. Because I'm The Oracle and I know.

    P.S.
    What does your guild membership have to do with it? Your guild leader at the time was forum alting and dragging multiple people from the guild into the thread to try and Forum Quest up an Evict Button. The thread was titled "WTB Evict Button" for anyone who would like to see exactly what I said, and what you said in that thread.

    I guess my point was, you belonged to a guild that went all in for evict button then and couldn't get it done. So I find it funny that you come in here and try again. You all are going to fail again.
  11. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    In addition I'd like to point out there is one Guild Leader who I gained respect for in that thread.

    Maedhros posted in that thread, wanting an evict button.

    After some discussion, and me giving him quite a hard time, he admitted that he had sent a PM asking to have a house removed manually. The devs said they don't have to time to do that.

    And I said "Why don't you take them at their word", they don't have time to do it manually and they aren't going to code a solution.

    I'm pretty sure those GLs that don't understand what I meant by 'Social Engineering' will learn on their own, or not.

    Lianeb's little scenario where he calls someone an 'a**' immediately upon getting a response he doesn't like, shows you all you need to know.

    Someone who understands how to write rules and enforce them through social engineering rather than punitive actions and language wins. Those that don't fail.

  12. Zanarnar Augur

    Oh I don't disagree, the chances of seeing this are quite low. I still think it makes sense, though.


    If its possible; I'd prefer the property just be moved to a public neighborhood with the same layout as the guild one, in the same plot; if not then yes immediately remove the house and send everything to the owner. (part of why this is manual and not automatic!)

    Mainly, this is why its manual! I'd expect the GL not to remove the house of someone still in the guild on another alt/toon. Making the process something the GL has to initiate (no popups/reminders/nags) and not automatic, removes so many of the issues as to make this a no-brainer IMO. (of course, my opinion counts for exactly jack with dpg but /shrug/ )
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  13. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    It’s a fair request. Guilds are supposed to be their own communities and able to decide who is and isn’t part of it.
  14. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    YOU ARE BRILLIANT!!

    I've not heard anyone suggest this, and it may be quite a bear to code, but that is the perfect solution.

    I approve this message.


    Don't say that!

    You opinion matters as much as anyone's. And if you hadn't felt confident to theory-craft and post, we wouldn't have seen this brilliant solution!

    I truly am just dying to talk about this stuff in a rhetorical sense and see what we can theory-craft. That used to be a thing I loved on these forums.

    But I brook no fools, and it just makes people want to blindly argue with me. -sigh
  15. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Fenthen,
    I would propose, Zanarnar's idea, summarized below, and presented as a PM by you to Accendo if you don't know who best to address it to, or any dev you may know personally if you think that's better, would achieve the best possible outcome.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you what to do, just a suggestion, take any element or none that you like.

    -----Idea as presented by Zanarnar-------
    Elements that are important to mention (in Master Magnus' opinion).

    -After ~14 days from being removed from guild, the Owner of the Guild Writ (or GL) will see a button enabled on the plot display that says
    'Move to Non-Guilded Orphan Plot'

    -This allows 'cooler heads to prevail' so arguments or bugs don't suddenly get people displaced in error.

    -This solution considers both sides concerns, Guild Leader's desire to control the neighborhood they paid for, and player's desire to not be evicted and have things packed in crates.

    -A default 'Orphan Guild Plot' could be made, and existing code used to create new neighborhoods dynamically as it fills up.

    -If at all possible the plot is moved to a matching layout so everything can be placed and stored exactly as is. Escrow stays the same. Access stays the same. Etc.

    -If not possible, is there some way to move to a plot, even if the 'layout' isn't supported, and things are dropped in storage or overflow rather than packed in eviction crates? For one thing because escrow stays the same?

    -This would allow Writ Owners (or GLs) to leave a plot even if someone is unguilded, if they don't mind. And also allows them to send people no longer in their guild to the 'dead letter office' so to speak. So there are no hard feelings if the displaced person returns.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Zanarnar, please note if my summary gets what you had in mind wrong, or left anything out.
    Fenthen likes this.
  16. Windance Augur

    I personally am in favor of the guild leader having an evict button, or an automated evict after 30 days not being in the guild. run the script that does that on patch days.

    Lots of things I'd like to see them fix before this, but .... they have time to code 'perks' so they have time for this
    demi, Fenthen, cadres and 1 other person like this.
  17. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    The problems with the above solution is you have to go out into the guild plots and physically find the plot(s) and of course after 14 days you won't always remember. Hell players cannot always remember to remove their own anchor before deguilding let alone doing anything 14 days later. The likely hood of your plot being available in a public neighbourhood is slim.

    I prefer the auto evitcion idea after 90 days. You get the ingame email the day you leave the guild the same as when you run out of escrow. That way you have plenty of time if your moving to a new guild to get yourself a plot sorted out where you want to be rather than moving to a public plot and moving again to your new guild plot.

    Housing is still flakey and I'd rather they did the simplest solution. Aditional checks when logging in should only be housing neighbourhoood and your guild tag.
    Fenthen and cadres like this.
  18. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    I get that is your preference. But there are many reasons why that is an inferior approach.

    I'm not going to rehash all the reasons why making it automatic is bad, and forcing the Writ Owner to walk to the plot, by choice, is good.

    I'm going to point out:
    IF you forget about displacing a plot in 14 days or less, THAT PLOT ISN'T ACTUALLY A PROBLEM AT ALL NOW IS IT?

    And if at some point down the road you find need of a specific plot you're standing in, you move them out, without evicting that player and possibly causing ill will with that player.

    You may feel that your paying for the writ trumps all concerns of someone who has a fully paid plot. I promise you DPG doesn't see it that way. And DB/SOE never did either.

    Fact is, Writ Owners are asking for something to be done to address their concerns, with no regard for the people, who far outnumber them. The concerns of the majority will win in any sensible outcome, for a business.

    Because the other fact is, this is just a tiny minority of Writ Owners that even have this problem. Many handle it other ways.

    How about the Writ Owner puts 1 year escrow in every empty plot, and keeps it up to date every six months. So nobody can place any house without their permission. And the Writ Owner only adds them to access, always retaining ownership of the plot, and always being able to withdraw escrow and 'give them 90 days' yourself?

    Oh wait is that too much plat and too much management to deal with? Again you want it automatic and easy for people to just be evicted, who cares right?
  19. Windance Augur

    I suspect the guild leaders are responding to their members unable to setup housing.

    I can't think of any guild leader who wants to micromanage yet another aspect of the game, just for the sake of doing so.

    Another work around would be to just increase availability. Let guilds have an infinite number of neighborhoods.
    Yinla likes this.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    Why is all the talk about what guild leaders spend on guild plots when they are not the only who can/does buy them? The focus on guild leaders appears to be an attempt to draw sympathy to the guild leaders and distract from reasons for not allowing evictions from guild neighborhoods.