Not enough resources to go around?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Pogomogo, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Pogomogo New Member

    Everquest is over 20 years old, but still has game mechanics that result in frustration and lack of enjoyment, yet after all those years there are not enough resources available to remedy certain issues.

    Players spend time (sometimes days or weeks) and energy (working with friends, sometimes a full raid group) to acquire a quest piece or character gear. Then they are interacting with NPCs, handing over that piece to them without error prevention or error checking for potential issues; in this case specifically <Lore> flags. If the result of error means an item becomes lost, consumed by the that NPC, a player may have lost considerable amounts of time and energy spent on the game.

    When reporting the issue in a support ticket, the response is: “Unfortunately, we cannot reimburse items that were granted to you and destroyed due to a duplicate lore item. Items lost due to the <Lore> flag, will need to be obtained again through normal gameplay. This cannot be reversed as your character received Faction and Experience adjustments.” And “Though we used to assist with this issue in the past, we no longer do so as we no longer have the resources to do so. Done correctly, you would receive your quest items.”

    Going back to patch design mechanics consumes time and financial resources. The ability to check for <Lore> flags is possible, evidenced by the inability to trade items between players via trade window or parcel service. It is possible to update older content, evidenced by patches in 2021 for TLP boss mechanics (Phinny and Venril Sathir), Epic Quest Mob changes, Class Spells (Enchanter AE Stuns), and even updating random loot tables on the new Mischief/Thornblade Servers.

    NPCs consuming player items is an issue that has existed for 20 years. There was a time when the result of reporting issues of this specific nature for difficult to acquire items was remedied, and a player would be reimbursed the item lost. However, now there is an unwillingness to spend time and resources to fix this mechanic or address remedy tickets. There are no resources and it’s player's fault they didn’t play the game correctly.

    When there is a policy of refusal to remedy support tickets, compounded with an unwillingness to update the game for error prevention mechanics to address unfun game mechanics, it signals to the player community our time and energy playing the game is not valued. Has remedy ticket resolution become such a huge resource drain that it is undo-able? Is going back and attempting to patch a fix to prevent such errors so resource intensive that it is not possible?

    There are not enough resources to assist in resolving a player issue resulting in unfun gameplay, yet there are resources to redistribute the old content on new TLP servers every year, add new micro-purchases to the game, implement a new perks system to increase the monthly subscription, patch out decade old game mechanics that are now perceived to trivialize content, and release yearly expansions with $100+ packages.

    It seems like there are plenty of resources to generate increased revenues from the existing player base but not enough to address in game support tickets or fix game mechanics that cause frustration. The former is fine, it is the business of the game industry; it is the latter that is disappointing.
    Wulfhere and Duder like this.
  2. Laronk Augur

    ]
    They fixed most of the NPC consuming player items issues, it used to be that NPCs would willing eat anything you gave them.

    That said you might get more luck posting this on the bug forum but in a shorter form with specific examples. Also you didn't say if your specific problem was quest window quest or a old fashioned style quest (important) but I'm going to assume it was an old-styled quest.

    To clairify what you're wanting is a check where the NPC checks to see if you're eligible and can receive the reward before it eats the quest items right? The problem I forsee with this would be that it would potentially break multiquesting.
    Sissruukk and Skuz like this.
  3. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    There was an increase in the number of members on the team in January 2021, replacing the 3 that left the team in june/july 2020 and adding 3 more (6 total).
    Of course it takes a while to really be conversant in the EQ specifics of those roles so they won't be up to full speed until next year's expansion at least I would guess, though they will be busy.

    So resources got a shot in the arm, but it doesn't return the EQ team to the size it was when it was sold by SoE, probably not even close, but the team is overall more versatile than it was then too.

    As for this issue, among others, well not as much content fixing gets done during the expansion building part of the year (July to October) as it does outside of that so timing plays an important part in what you can expect to get fixed when.

    It also depends on what kind of fix it is as to who will be needing to work on it.
    If its design related then the content developers will be responsible for making changes.
    If it requires code changes or something being built/repaired in the code then devs wont be making those kinds of changes generally, though they do a lot with the scripting engine.

    Some devs do have coding expertise though, Dzarn was a dev who was splitting his time between coding & dev work to start off with but then moved into full time coding for example.
    Gyurika Godofwar and Brontus like this.
  4. Tucoh Augur

    What item did you lose?
  5. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I'm pretty sure more have been added to the team since then. Naylie has returned recently and I've seen a couple of new names cropping up in the staff post tracker.
    Gyurika Godofwar and Skuz like this.
  6. Slasher Augur

    EQ by itself makes 3-4 times what they reinvest into it if we're to believe the numbers from last year. So the money is there, but they would rather spend it on other games like they continue to do for EQ2 that has probably 1/3rd the population and profit margins.
    Qelil, Fenthen, Brontus and 1 other person like this.
  7. Riou EQResource


    EQ2 is just more modern looking so it is easier to advertise and show off as the "premier" MMO of the Darkpaw side

    It's weird that marketing and that still thinks that way when other old games have grown a lot, like Runescape and that which looks even more ancient then eq1, WoW classic, etc
    Gyurika Godofwar and Skuz like this.
  8. Slasher Augur


    True and we both know they're not going to do any kind of graphical overhaul to EQ like they plan on for LOTRO.
  9. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    I find the "not enough resources" excuse to be unbelievable. Let's not forget that they have resources to create bunny pets to honor something that has nothing to do with Norrath and give them away free every June.

    The problem is not resources, the problem is a combination of a lack of will and corporate greed. You know it and I know it.
  10. Brontus EQ Player Activist


    I can only speculate that they want to spend more money on their modern looking games to make the company look more attractive to investors who like shiny new things. Perhaps they don't like the dated look of EverQuest graphics. Well in that case, they only have themselves to blame for two decades of neglect.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  11. Accipiter Old Timer


    You usually hear that from the forum DBG apologists. There's not enough resources, the current staff grossly overworked, etc. It's all made up/imagined. It might be true, but it might not be.
    Fenthen and Brontus like this.
  12. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    So we laughed and dissed them for the old response

    "Feel free to reacquire the item in gameplay"

    And the good ole'

    "Check with your fellow adventurers in game for help"

    Or:

    "It appears you missed a step"

    So now its just

    "not enough resources"

    But like naughty children we just keep bugging mom and dad for the answer we want to hear. How many different ways can they say "you messed it up now figure it out yourself" "we are not here to play the game for you"

    I will be the first to admit that after the 3rd time of them refusing to fix what I felt was an issue caused by the game and being told to "Check with your fellow adventurers in game for help" that I finally did just that. I researched the issue on line and sure enough...it was my mistake. And a couple were missed steps which caused the rest to fail.

    js;)
    Nennius likes this.
  13. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    Yes, a new client with updated graphics is something we've been asking for for over 10 years. But they spent the money on so many failed games instead.

    EverQuest should get new graphics and then advertise as the "hard core" MMO for "elite" players. "If you think you are good in WoW or other games, step up and play a game that really tests your mettle. No cartooney stuff here".
    Qelil, Skuz, Gyurika Godofwar and 3 others like this.
  14. Pogomogo New Member


    That is correct. If you turn in an item and the NPC is supposed to hand you something in return, inserting an error prevention check that sees if you have the <Lore> item on the character. If found, it instead would put the item you gave back on your cursor or empty bag slot, similar to when you hand an NPC an item they don't want, they give it back. Then give the message about no duplicate <Lore> items. It happens that way in the game for trading and parcel, so the capability appears to be there already.

    The content is older and newer content in the game to my knowledge does not use this mechanic. However, with a TLP released annually (so far) there is value in advocating a possible fix for quality of life where this mechanic exists. They have shown a willingness to adjust mechanics related to Epics for quality of life. But maybe resources are too tight and reworking code isn't an available option. In that case, is taking the time to respond to a support ticket, that includes some effort of documentation on the part of the player, and reimbursing the item also too onerous on resources?


    The Clawed Griffin Sword

    The specific instance encountered was the King Tormax Head Quest with Yelinak. The mechanic where there are three possible gear rewards from the quest. Upon completion of the quest you are rewarded with Item 1. In order to receive Item 2, you hand Item 1 back to the NPC and receive Item 2. You would hand in Item 2 in order to receive Item 3. If you then wanted Item 1 again, you could turn in Item 3 and start this cycle over. If you were holding any of the three items in a bank slot and forget, the <Lore> tag would prevent you from recieving an item from the cycle and not return the item you turned in.
    niente, Coagagin and Tucoh like this.
  15. Tucoh Augur

    What a mess! Sorry you got chuk e cheezed!!!!
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    Those bunny pets are just a reskinned model and that shouldn't take an artist a lot of time to work.
    Zunnoab likes this.
  17. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I think a lot of players feel the same way.

    I do understand the business needs of trying to capitalise on "interest" in titles when they coincide with something like the Amazon LoTR tv show as that's effectively extra advertising - if they are smart and buy some advertising space alongside it.

    Not sure what the DCUO graphics update is capitalising upon though maybe it is a response to concerns about Daybreak's next MMO project (Marvel licensed) and DC not wanting DCUO to get left behind when a new game in the same genre is trotted out by the developer of their title.

    Runescape showed what you can do if you are smart and know your players well.

    EverQuest has had people running the business side of the game that haven't really respected the IP in my view.
    We should have had several graphics overhauls since 2004, all we had was a few minor improvements to an ancient engine.
    I am still optimistic we will get an overhaul of EQ but pessimistic about how long we will be made to wait for one while other, in my view much less deserving games, are given the updates.
  18. Riou EQResource


    Think DCUO is probably just how it has the most players, and a small % of them are actually subs/paying, if they can convert a significant amount more it would be the companies #1 profit source

    Don't think it has its PS5 / Xbox Series ports yet either
    Skuz likes this.
  19. Brontus EQ Player Activist

    That's actually true but I can think of hundreds of graphical upgrades that could be done that would benefit players overall instead of a few vanity pets. The pets in question were offered free to players which produced no revenue for DBG, which makes no sense given that these days everything they do has a direct and immediate profit motive.
  20. niente Developer

    Thanks, will see if we can fix this from happening in the future.

    As for CS policy on reimbursing items, it would be great if we can get that policy changed, but no promises. The people who can change quests, fix UI issues, add new mounts, work on login issues, and reimburse items are all different departments with different rules.
    Zunnoab, Leigo, Skuz and 11 others like this.