is there a future for pet tanking?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Finnster, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. Finnster Elder

    I played a Beastlord on Phinigel TLP server and now I'm on live. So the last expansions came a little faster for me than for those who always played on live and I noticed the changes more. And while pet tanking was quite steady for several expansions, it became more and more unreliable and unuseful. Pet tanking has never been of the same quality as having a real tank as a player, but it was viable to somehow get through most the content.

    It started in TBL when suddenly nameds in missions were tagged as raid mobs so pets couldn't taunt them anymore. I'm not happy with the choice that tank mercenaries are ok but pets aren't. I'd rather do without mercenaries and just use each classes abilities (which includes pets).

    It got worse in ToV when aggro was significantly reduced. Our pet proc buff "Spirit of Beramos" upgrade "Spirit of Mandirikai" increased the deaggro from 875 to 10500 (did you add a zero too much?) making it counterproductive in a tanking scenario. The only pet buff we can use now is level 107 "Debilitating Bite" which didn't get an update in ToV. The similarly sounding buff "Depleting Bite" fades after a few procs so is utterly useless.

    I often just group with my alts and some mercenaries, but since ToV (and even worse in CoV now) my pet can't really hold aggro against melee mercenaries in balanced mode. They always end up as the target of the mob and regularly die. I end up as the target of the mob a lot when I use more than 1 dot (why did you increase DoT aggro so much but not pet aggro???). I equip my pet with full mage summoned armor, buff with Hobble of Spirit, Epic, Druid's Reptile and enchanter's Perpetual Terror. But aggro isn't sufficient.

    CoV made it even worse. In addition to all the above mentioned issues, we now also have mobs that dispell the defensive buff on our pet. It happens to me a lot in DN and in SS, and probably also in other zones but I just never noticed.

    So this is a question to the Devs: Is this intentional to reduce the viability of pet tanking for group content?

    If not, then I'd like to ask for following:
    - adjust pet aggro to where most fights don't end up with the melee merc tanking at the end.
    - give us a pet proc buff that can be used for pet tanking.
    - don't let mobs cast spells that dispell our pets defensive buff.
    - add some chat message when pet buffs fade / are dispelled so we can add audio triggers for those situations.
  2. demi Augur

    hmm I dont really know much about mage's .. I have a lvl 114 one but I dont really main the mage i just use her for CoH and dps with my warrior ... however I will say this I just grouped with a friend who does main a mage and we were in CoV other day and taking on O'l Finny and it was just myself and my friend (mage) and 2 healer mercs.. well I died (warrior) very early on cause stupid merc couldnt keep me healed and I thought we were gonna have to do a corpse run .. well he and his pet tanked the named for about 2 or 3 min however long you hover over while dead timer was going .. :p and he ended up killing the named ..

    now I will say this he is raid geared and has the 2nd best raid EM there is i believe he also keeps a pocket pet in case his first pet dies , which it did and he had to pull out the other pet .. but he was able to kill the named ..

    Now i don't know if a group gear'd mage with no raid focus would of been able to do that or not , I seriously doubt it ..

    also note , I think group gear'd mages can tank anything pretty much in ToV excluding the hero missions and of course some named maybe ..

    I do feel group gear'd mages could use some lovin with their pets in that regard ..
  3. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    Many years ago so parse happy warrior showed that pets were taking less hit damage than tanks who just stood there, was a decent margin. But this ignored every other thing tanks had going for them like high avoidance rates, using discs properly, AA, self healing and various clicks. He only showed the impact from these things with 20 minute long parses which watered down their true impact or proper use and the devs bought right into it and nerfed all pets very severely. Mages main pets were already so strong they got by fine after but necromancer and beastlord main pets took the same nerfs despite already being well behind. They require a lot more help to handle stuff now.

    At this stage of the game its unlikely anything changes for pets despite the insanity of all tanks currently when using their tools. Tank like a beast, dps like a dps class and in some cases heal like a healer all at once.
  4. Finnster Elder

    thanks for you comment. But this thread isn't about Beastlord pet mitigation or avoidance. It's about aggro. Our (Beastlords) pets fail to hold aggro against players and balanced melee mercenaries.

    please don't change the thread's topic from aggro to damage mitigation or from beastlord pet to mage pet.
    Ciskin likes this.
  5. Alnitak Augur

    Use Spirit of Vaxztn (lvl 84) proc buff
    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=18130
    Buff warder with Horasug's Protection
    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=60596
    Give it 2 of Summoned: Silver Ragesword
    https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=137778
    also with all other summoned gear. Buff it to the max and let it taunt.

    And it will hold aggro just fine unless a plated tank in your group wants to show off to your warder.
    TBL+ missions were intentionally made very hard on pets, because too many tanks whined about becoming obsolete. Such is live, deal with it.
    And dps mercs are real pita on aggro, very unruly rogues, think too much of themselves. Let them die and have a last laugh at them.
    Randomized likes this.
  6. Randomized Augur

    That comment you dismissed explains why they got nerfed and why you're seeing that they're having harder times being decent tanks
  7. demi Augur

    sorry , dont know where or how I saw mage pets ... ya cant help you regarding bst pets .. I have a bst but dont play her much .. :( so sorry ..
  8. Randomized Augur

    Wasn't about you - was about the post directly above his response. You're all good Demi!
    demi likes this.
  9. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    The issue isn't pets, it's content.

    Expansions are getting smaller and, therefore, more focused. DPG is catering to mass crowd and what they want. Soloing just isn't something DPG will cater to any more.
  10. Shredd Augur

    I pet tank all the time. . including names in CoV.
    Ozon likes this.
  11. Finnster Elder

    ok, I haven't tried Vaxztn in a long time. But that basically goes along my request to the devs to give us a reasonable proc buff for our pets in an expansion.

    Concerning the other points, that's exactly what I do, just like stated. But it's just not enough aggro. And it's not only the mercs that end up tanking, I'm constantly > 90% on the aggro meter when I have 2 dots on the mob and do my regular dps stuff.

    I played a little more after starting this thread and I believe the major issue might actually be mobs constantly dispelling Horasug's Protection. Sometimes it gets dispelled more than once per fight. Dear Devs, this is a terrible situation. Please look into why this constantly gets dispelled. I very much hope this is not intentional.
  12. Finnster Elder

    but then why do they favor tank mercenaries over real players playing a pet class?
  13. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    At the low end, I agree. Level 70+ tank mercs begin their decline to paper mache cutouts, and pet classes become exponentially more powerful.
  14. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    I've tanked CoV names with a group using necro and mage pets. You do need extra healing but that is also true with any real tank without very good gear and AAs.

    Unless you have a very good real tank, my groups use two healers (can use mercs) for CoV names. Latest expansion named mobs are hard without a group that covers several things (very good gear / AAs or a slower or two healers, etc.).

    Aggro is not a pet issue, it's an issue for everyone. Rogue mercs are massive aggro generators. Monks need to be constantly FDing their aggro off (I play a monk often and have no problem with that, you just need to be aware of it). We have a necro pet not taunting stealing aggro off a pally who is not fully raid geared / AAed. My rogue merc also steals aggro from the pally (yes, on balanced, I don't dare use burn).

    To address your issue more directly, the problem is rogue mercenaries, not your pet. Until Darkpaw addresses that issue, use wizard mercs. I know their dps is far below that of rogue mercs, but until/unless Darkpaw gives rogue mercs less aggro or has them fade or something, it will be a problem.

    That said, I have no idea about beastlords, or even most pet classes. It may be beastlords need some help. I just know from my experience that necro and mage pets can hold aggro pretty well except against rogue mercs.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    Remember to keep Marr's Salvation buff on your group (paladin should always buff block it) and then try your rogue on burn again. Typically a FoD + Audacity + Protest is enough to hold aggro against the merc. This is with anger mask, bold attacks AA enabled, and Preservation buff. Since the merc can often be in a bad position for adds, and get killed, I would also use Call Assist button manually so that it waits before moving behind the mobs to attack.

    All that aside, I find that the merc will do about the same DPS on Balance or Burn stance if you maintain a large hate lead over the merc. On Balance stance they will stop attacking to help reduce hate, lowering DPS. Otherwise they perform about the same with balanced happily waiting a bit before attacking (so a bit less DPS and early aggro). In short, Balance is fine especially if your tank is ramping plenty of hate.

    ps: The real benefit of Burn stance is that the rogue merc can be a decent tank for priest classes.
    Ozon likes this.
  16. Kaenneth [You require Gold access to view this title]

    I find, generally, that Pets tank great in a level increase expansion, because new pet levels, then not so great in the non-level increase, because mobs got tougher while pets stayed the same.
  17. demi Augur

    doesnt the next EM focus help with that plus the extra aa in for pets (forget name) that makes pet tank better during a non lvl expansion ?
  18. Alnitak Augur

    Not really ToV raid TS EM is 28, and CoV raid TS EM is 30 Both make warder at lvl 114. Yes, EM30 warder is better than EM28, but just marginally. Not enough to cover nameds hitting 75K vs 55K
  19. Eaedyilye More stonehive bixies.

    I box 2 mages. I use a healer and rogue merc. What I find interesting, I never have aggro issues with my rouge merc. Once in a while the aggro meter gets in the yellow, but most of the times its fine.

    I use my earth pet for my tank. I give it a tier 1 TOV weapon and a rage sword. Plus a 22% hate generating mask. That pet snaps the aggro from anyone in my team as soon as it engages with the mob. That pet is an aggro hog, which is intended. For what it's worth, my other mage uses the water pet with taunt off. My pet is an EM 29, so this may have something to do with it.
  20. demi Augur

    is your rogue merc on burn or balanced .. just curious .. and also for gear what does your pet have jsut the normal summoned gear it comes with or do you give it conflag or better gear .. you said you give it a hate mask and a T1 tov weapon .. do you just buy those in baz and have extras .. sometimes my mage pet dies alot or if DPG does a emergency patch and my pet gets the shaft .. is the EM 29 raid focus or from CoV group