Make all the perks free or cancel them

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Paladorfthemighty, Sep 17, 2021.

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  1. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    I looked at your thread, and it was another case of someone suggesting their own set of ideas, followed by people not liking them, and then the OP (you) absolutely freaking out because everyone doesn't love them. Some or all of your ideas weren't good, accept it and move on.

    To be fair, you posted it in the TLP forum, which has a lot more toxicity in it than other forums.
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  2. Allworth Elder


    I disagree with your overly dramatic mischaracterization of my replies. I don't mind honest critique as long as it's respectful and in good faith. I objected to the incivility and hostility. They cherry picked the ideas they didn't like and derailed the thread -- a common tactic that trolls use. I didn't demand that everyone love my ideas. That's a falsehood. I will continue to defend myself from mean-spirited and disparaging attacks. I suspect, the forum warriors are not used to cogent and spirited opposition.

    You don't like my ideas? Good for you. You are entitled to your opinion.

    No, I won't move on. If I do, it will be when I decide to and not when you tell me to.

    The fact that the TLP forums are known to be toxic isn't my problem. I'm relatively new here and had no idea it was a cesspool. If they are well-known to be toxic, then that begs the question: why has nothing been done about it? There are clear forum guidelines about acceptable behavior and I can only speculate that are are largely being ignored and because of the selective enforcement of those rules. The toxicity has been allowed to metastasize which discourages new players and others who don't want to subject themselves to it to not bother posting at all. Therefore the forums are not conducive or welcoming to people with new ideas, nor do they accurately represent the opinions of the paying player base, which made me say that the devs should take the opinions here with a grain of salt.

    The narrative that is being spread that EQ perks are horrible and injurious to the integrity of the game, is false and misleading. The existence of threads complaining about perks was used by the original poster as an example of evidence that the the EQ player base is not in favor of them does not prove the original posters point. My thread which got long was probably one of them.

    Despite the best efforts of a handful of people to manufacture a false and undemocratic consensus, these forums are not scientific and in no way do the represent the accurate opinions of the EQ player base.

    I strongly urge Daybreak Games to offer these perks and consider the idea of offering many more new ones to help enhance the game experience of the players that wish to pay for them. I for one, fully support an efforts to bolster the continued financially viability of EverQuest.
  3. cadres Augur

    Oh dear
    You spend a lot of words in your post (snipped for brevity) bewailing that your suggestions were met with hostility
    You then insult those who dared to opine against those suggestions

    Whether or not perks are 'horrible' 'injurious' etc is a matter of opinion. No-one has a heap of data to evidence this one way or the other
    So to say that your opinions are fine and dandy and everyone else's are 'false' and 'misleading' (without clear evidence of either) is clearly not in the spirit of the healthy and happy debate which you claim to have wanted to happen
    Stymie, Corwyhn Lionheart and Qelil like this.
  4. Sissruukk Rogue One

    A thread normally gets locked down when arguments turn to personal attacks, or the toxicity of the thread is just overwhelming. They normally don't get locked down when the discussion is civil.

    That being said, I will also point out that there are a few of us on this thread that have mentioned that ForumQuest does not represent the whole of the EQ player base. I will also concede to whomever it was that pointed out that ForumQuest is has been used as a means to nerf a class, but ForumQuest has also been used to fix things as well (Aneuk Eye drop rate in my case and experience).

    As for it being a democratic process, DPG is a company, not a nation, and has the right to do what it wants regardless of what the few voices on ForumQuest wants, desires, or needs. I don't think you need to worry about the perks being yanked out before implementation. DPG will just look at the bottom line and see if it was successful or not and go from there.
    Stymie, Qelil and Yinla like this.
  5. henry0918 Journeyman

    Then where did the money go if not being put into active development of Everquest ?
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  6. Velisaris_MS Augur

    All of the other games in Daybreak's portfolio...both the ones currently active and the ones that just fizzled into nothing.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Fenthen like this.
  7. Fenthen aka Rath

    Yes. Not funding failed projects with EverQuest money. This game should have millions in cash reserves, but instead it's gasping every year due to the terrible choices by SOE & DBG.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and cadres like this.
  8. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Some people keep saying EverQuest money went elsewhere. To be authoritative, what are the sources of this information?

    The EG7 presentation does not breakdown where money is channeled.
    Stymie likes this.
  9. demi Augur

    as they say the proof is in the pudding .. Mr.
    over the last 20+ years and im sure im missing a few ventures ..

    EQ2 , landmark, EQ online, LoN , EQ3 that never happened(maybe im thinking of EQ Next) , EQ hero's call (pocket PC) ..Champions of Norrath (PS 2 console ) ..

    the point is EQ has funneled a lot of EQ revenue into these failed or just shut down endeavors over the years ..

    money went into them and more and more get taken away from EQ .. if all that money had been re-invested back into EQ this game would be thriving today ..

    you know it and we know it ..

    and DBG knows that we know , but they dont care..
  10. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    The problem is some of the same people who complain about "other projects" are the same people who complain about the end of EQNext (or the need for a sequel, new graphics/models, new engine). There is a "continuum" of EverQuest. For these people, Landmark/EQNext was a valid expenditure of funds but - hindsight being 20/20 - they suddenly turn around and call foul.


    You cited projects during the SOE era (Smedley). I'd blame the management/decision-makers from that era. I wouldn't put past mismanagement on current leadership unless people can cite authoritative sources of information.
  11. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Another problem with some generating rumors that "your money won't go back into EQ" is that people reading on the forums, Discord, Reddit, or third-party media will actually be dissuaded from spending in the game. It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy as the game sees a decrease in support due to the barrage of possible misinformation (rumors, unsupported allegations). The "Negative Nancys" win but the studio (trying their best) and all of the players lose.
  12. demi Augur

    Like you said all this management/decision makers on past projects were from the SOE era ..

    so lets take a look at when DBG and Nova took over

    expansions got smaller , Dev teams got fired or they left to go to Blizzard or moved to EQ 2 , planetside, SWTOG or DC online ..

    we know from this thread that EQ makes money , its one of the DBG cash cows

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/eq1-numbers-revealed.271988/

    https://investgame.net/news/eg7-acquires-daybreak-games-for-300m/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_Game_Company

    EQ is their money maker .. if you cant read that in these links and know that while all these other platforms went belly up , but who's still standing yep EQ is .. after 20+ years .. why because we are their cash cow .. I'm sure if they are public knowledge and someone wanted to go digging for it they could find the money trail ..
    but common sense is common sense and 2 + 2 still = 4 last i checked ..
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  13. demi Augur

    The majority of the lay-offs happened during Columbus Nova era , and granted EG7 has only just acquired us 9 mo ago so will see how it goes but from past experience im not holding my breath ..
    Qelil likes this.
  14. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Yes. Smedley wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on the failed EQNext project. (Which I did not support but some of the "cry foul" folks did).

    1. "Expansions got smaller." You could be wrongly attributing cause. Where is the evidence to support the allegation that money was diverted away and not due to other factors such as the bad PR and debts of EQNext?

    2. "Dev teams got fired or they left." Daybreak assumed ownership of SOE. Restructuring is a preferable alternative to bankruptcy. Holly and Prathun left for Blizzard only very recently (within the last 2 years).


    The allegation that EverQuest is a cash cow and money is being diverted away is innuendo (and borderline conspiracy theory).

    I believe DCUO is the overall larger revenue maker. How do we know that we don't receive funds from them?

    In a world full of misinformation and disinformation, I'd like solid, credible, and authoritative information rather than innuendo or a concocted narrative. (Yes, rumors - that, if they gain traction - can hurt the health of the game).
  15. demi Augur

    sometimes its just useless talking to you ..

    you believe what you want .. its your choice .. you want to believe in rainbows and unicorns by all means .. evidently you didnt read thru all the links .. I know you cant believe everything you read but when there are multiple sources that say one thing .. then I'll repeat what i said 2+2 =4 no matter how you write it .. 1 +3 still = 4

    and I'm done bantering back and forth .. time will tell over the next year maybe 2 ..

    and i'm sure even then when I'm proven right you will still want the accounting sheets from off the desk of Ji ham
  16. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    You can make an effort to accept, modify, or refute my arguments rather than waste my time saying "2+2 = 4".

    In a world full of misinformation and disinformation (and clickbait hype), I've learned not to accept innuendo, conspiracy theory, or first reports.
  17. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    How about because they released the revenue numbers and we all know exactly what each game made and expenses?

    During the time period released:

    EQ1 $11.5m revenue, $3.7m expenses, $7.8m profit
    DCU $26.7m revenue, $19.42m expenses, $7.28m profit

    EQ1 is their most PROFITABLE game. EQ1 has the lowest expenses/booking ratio by FAR, which by definition means they are NOT spending the same revenue on EQ1 as they are on *every other game*, meaning the profit from eq1 flows outward, not inward.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  18. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    1. How do they define expenses (generally and specifically for EQ1)?

    2. Is the time period an accurate reflection of past, current, and future revenue models and trends?

    3. Could the money be going to past debts and liabilities (i.e. EQNext) or other valid issues?

    I want authoritative information on the flows of revenue not broad supposition (or innuendo) from authoritative general revenue information.
  19. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    You are wrong. Deal with it. *shrug* No one owes you anything.
  20. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    "You are wrong. Deal with it." O.K., nice come back.

    These are fair questions to come to the truth. People do this all of the time for business, law, and politics. It's not a personal attack.
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