Things we need to do to change the game...

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Veteran_BetaTester, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    Rangers get headshot, rogues get assassinate, berzerkers get decapitate does that make them "homogenized"?

    Of the 4 things you posted, only one touches on something I had mentioned specifically and it included specific caveats to which mage CoTH is not bound by. Both parties being out of combat. Target party must be in a designated area. That severely limits the functionality to: can summon replacement player to our group instead of restarting a dungeon crawl. That's a huge difference compared to what a mage can do with CoTH. In similar fashion, it's like saying that melee classes shouldn't have been given origin because they don't have the capability to gate (which is still different from origin) or because they can't use faith/spirit stones yet here we are.

    How about the fact every class has an aggro drop AA now? Beastlords were given a feign death? I mean.. I see your point, but I'm not introducing anything new or that hasn't/can't be done with a bit of care and forethought. I'm not proposing a one-to-rule-them-all type class.
  2. Randomized Augur

    If you can’t handle being told no, you probably shouldn’t start a discussion on an open forum where people who can and will disagree with you, can and will respond. Now moving on:

    Those 3 classes having their “instant kill” if you will, is not homogenization. Just because 3 of 16 classes have similar abilities doesn’t mean we’re playing Oprah and giving those abilities away to everyone in the audience. Now if we did give it away and give Monks and Bards and Beastords and Instant Kill ability, then yes it would be. There’s a difference and I know you know it. But if you’re gonna try to be petty about it I’ll write out this response.

    Of the 4 things I mentioned, none of them had anything to do with what you said. They were strictly off the top of my head examples of special flavors classes get.

    It should not be a “oh I’d like to play a class that primarily heals” - “well they all can heal so pick whatever you want” type situation. Or “ports sound fun!” - “yeah anything that used mana can port all over the world. So that gives you 12 classes to choose from (number made up).

    And I’m glad you mentioned Origin. That’s a prime example of a QoL perk that can be shared with everyone.

    And for Beastlords getting Feign Death, I remember when they implemented that. I was against it. Still am. BUT! It makes sense. Monks and Necros got FD for lore reasons that make sense. SKs being part Necro get it, makes sense. And same for Beastlords. It makes sense. “Give this ability to these guys because most people have them in a group” is not a sensible reason to do something. So to me, that’s not what I would consider a “bit of care and forethought”
  3. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    You had to go there didn't you...

    Don't get me started on the stupidity of WE beastorlds having a tree as a pet......trees are not animals......if they were so would the fruit that comes from them and vegitarians would starve...

    I hate that more classes can pull, specifically my rogue pulling with mez, she is one of the top dps classes she didn't need any more utility, why pick a lower DPS monk or ranger over a rogue? Classes are already being left out in the cold dishing out others abilities is going to make things worse.

    I hate that the guild hall has has more ports than I do! Port clickies should work the same as ledgendary illusions and allow wizzys to port their group there.

    I hate that melee can hit unlimited multiple targets at a time (riposte) yet casters AE spells are limited to X amount.

    I hate that they farmed out spell research to all classes, especially as that means spell research is no longer used as it was intended.

    I hate that all classes have fade, it wasn't needed and should have just been agro reduction.

    I hate that they nerfed spell spell procs and it has done nothing tangable to fixing the lag.

    I hate that all classes now have familiars another wizzy only uniqueness gone out the window.

    Wizzys asked for reverse CoH, to be able to port a group member to the rest of the group.....we got campfires. Good luck getting anything similar for clerics, cause lets be honest they aren't going to give it to all the priests.

    Oh yeah and I hate halflings, RoF promised halfling killing and all we got was to help 2 that were so stupid they got lost.....death to halflings!

    Most hated recent change the removal of the potion belt, whoever came up with the idea to remove that needs to be hung drawn and quartered. I still hate hunting through my bags to find the one I have with 1 charge on it before the next raid event!

    I could go on, but we will be here all day, but basically if I could change EQ I'd reverse the farming out of abilities they have done. There was a reason I picked a wizzy over the other 13 classes 21 years ago when I started out, there was a reason I picked rogue and beast a couple of years later over the others. Farming out abilites does make me wonder sometimes if I made the right choice.:mad:


    As for your suggestions for deities, I don't ever recall there ever being quests/gear for Quellious.
  4. Mossaa Augur

    I just read. Make my 6 box crew get more power so i can slack more when i box and I want my box cleric to be able to coh becase I do not bother running with a mage. Go play some other game.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    You know I would be fine with Monk, Beastlord and even Bard, getting an ability that is some somewhat comparable to Headshot, Assassinate & Decapitate, so long as it is balanced with the rest of their arsenal of abilities as it is for Rangers, Rogues & Berserkers. all of those classes ( Ranger, depending on expansion, variate been Melee and Ranged) are all Fighters with a damage role as their core purpose. Monk and Rogue could maybe bring a little more ADPS to their groups though.

    Bard - Blast beat, your years of experience allow you to perform a tune that is so fast, loud and powerful that the sonic waves it generates can cause massive damage to the ears of your target, this works on most enemies (similar to decapitate) but certain enemies are immune to sonic damage and a few can even reflect a portion of its power.

    Monk - Heartstopper, a focused blast of Qi energy aimed at the foe's chest that can cause a huge shockwave through their body and can potentially stop their heart from beating causing massive damage. Humanoid only

    Beastlord - Savage Grip, your fighting experiences at inns and Roadhouses across Norrath has enabled you to develop a lethal technique whereby you perform a chop and simultaneous grab of the throat of an enemy that can cause choking or at times even allow you to tear the throat out of your enemy causing massive damage. Humanoid only
  6. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    See, this is what I meant about painting with a wide brush. I never advocated giving every class every thing or even a large number of them every thing.

    I pulled lockpick, as an example, because only 2/16 classes get it. I used it as an example because it's a mechanic that is rarely used in current game play, it was a hassle in the day, and the implementation (in general) was poorly done. So much so that a decade later, they added an item that could be used on targetable locked items for any class to pick a lock (not counting the whole LDoN int/wis locks spell lines).


    You took my line out of context and illustrated the exact thing I was talking about. Expanding abilities to a few classes, indeed, does not create "homogenization" yet are trying to twist it somehow to say that I'm in favor of giving every class access to every unique ability. I am not.


    What makes Origin a QoL perk that's "ok" but giving one or two other classes access to an additional utility not ok?

    As for my banter back and forth with Ynla, it isn't about someone saying "no" as much as someone who refuses to engage in a meaningful way, other than "I don't like it so don't suggest it." Every reply and response dodges around the initial response and addressing the fact that EQ is constantly changing and yet.. it is still EQ not "a completely different game." Additionally, evry bit has been hand selected to avoid confronting any changes that conflict with their stance on what EQ should be. It's the whole "my game, my way" entitlement attitude that so many forum vets have.

    In similar fashion, Mossa's response about 6-boxing and "go play a different game" has zero merit. I don't 6-box. Saying "go play a different game" is one of the lamest lines that is frequently used on these forums as some form of disagreement.


    That's your opinion and that's fine. It is not a sensible reason, to you, to not do something. I used said example because it was already a mechanic used in a title owned by the current company. Instead of looking at other potential classes, like Necro or Wiz, who have similar abilities to open holes in space and time... but rather than addressing it, it gets a flat dismissal? That's what I mean about "a bit of care and forethought."
  7. Scila Augur

    Most of us started playing EQ because of what it was ... unique and different ... and that's why we stayed with it for so long it's unique. It isn't a cookie cutter of anything else out there or try to be. What "we" need to do was best said by Ely somewhere in another post, stop saying "I'd pay for this or that" and try to be something EQ isn't. We all know what we look for in a game and entertainment, there isn't a one size fits all anything in spite of what anybody wants to say. Keeping a game this old going without breaking ... that's the challenge.
  8. Dre. Altoholic

    Autoattack. I'd like auto attack to, you know, actually auto attack the enemy.
    Let me do /autodisc and /autoaa so I can have abilities fire with autoattack.
    Give autoattack settings that I can toggle to auto-face the enemy
    Let autoattack make minor positioning adjustments to hit mobs that are half an inch out of range.
    Let autoattack persist between mobs so I don't have to turn it on 10x when I'm fighting multiples.

    You know. Kinda like how pets work.
    Accipiter and Wyre Wintermute like this.
  9. Randomized Augur

    No, you're just advocating to give Classes special flavor to others, for no rhyme or reason outside of "I don't want to play that class, but I want their goodies". Hey anyone that can use daggers now automatically gets to Backstab! Yay! No, that's a Rogue thing, let Rogues keep that. CotH is a Mage thing. Let Mages keep that. There's no reason to give it to Priest classes


    Which makes it unique to those classes. Hey Tinkering is only available to Gnomes. That's a crutch right? Let's give to to all Non-Humans! It's already in game so that makes it a smart move right? I'm not giving it to everyone, just non-humans.

    Something does not need to be given to "everyone" or even a "majority" for homogenization to start setting in. Nor have I once said you're trying to give things to everyone.

    As for Origin being given to everyone...if you can't see the difference between every class getting Origin and Monks getting Complete Heal, Summoning pet toys, and Invis to Undead, then you're a lost cause my friend.

    Give me a legitimate reason for Priests to get Call of the Hero outside of "because i don't play a mage but I want the ability anyway"
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Nennius like this.
  10. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    I never said to give priests CoTH.

    I said Vanguard's healers all had the ability to summon players from the entrance of a dungeon to the group, if both parties were out of combat. That isn't CoTH. I also did not say that all EQ priests should have that ability and you've pointedly ignored where I mentioned Wizards or Nercos as an example.

    Let's see.. So then when I said:
    You actually did mean it was homogenization instead of what you wrote:
    Oh and right there is an instance of you saying I'm trying to give everything to everyone.

    This was a decent conversation in the beginning.. now it's just turning into backtracking, straw man and no true Scotsman fallacies.

    You don't think there's a need for (at least one) change I mentioned. That's fine. Leave it at that. Your opinion is valid, even if your arguments have devolved.
  11. quakedragon Augur

    What is a BST thing?
    As far as I know for mages, DS is a mage thing, so if CoTH is a mage thing too, that means they have 2 things. Mana rods make it 3 things. :D

    If any other class should get a coth, I'm thinking Beastlord. Maybe they have better, summon an entire group.
    I mean if they can summon warder, I'm pretty sure they should be able to summon players.
    Or maybe, have duo pets. Pet fatalities? Special and its with pets being able to Maul enemies to death.

    If you think about, BST? What's their thing, and is it any good too compared to other classes, thing?

    Also, I've been saying everywhere, but since this is a thread "things we need to do", I still believe a TSS 1-115(120) is something we need to do. It's pretty pointless trying to get people to return when they most likely last played at lvl 75, and you tout new zones and stuff which is for 120s, if they haven't came back due to new zones and stuff for end game at 75, I'm pretty sure, they wont be inclined to come back for lvl 120 zones they'll never see. However a TSS like zone, catchup, its been a decade and we want to catch up all returning players expansion like TSS (they had plenty for end gamers too), that is what we really need. It's been a decade since we had zones meant for catching up returning players.
  12. demi Augur

    Mages can summon their entire group .. Group CoH spell (forget lvl )

    Having a couple of zones in the new expansion would be Awesome say one from lvl 75 to 85 and another from 85 to 105 ..

    the zones can be 2 part or divided somehow like how Valley of Lun is in VoA the top half of zone is lower T1 mobs and the other part of zone is T2 (higher lvl mobs) ..

    I like Quakedragons post makes sense ..

    and with all this extra revenue from the "perks" DBG should be able to push out a few more zones :p

    Make it so #1
    Engage
  13. Randomized Augur

    You’re arguing just to argue at this point. In none of your responses have you given any body to your original post. No actual reasoning, and no legitimate excuses as to why your changes should be implemented.

    1. you mentioned that most groups have a healer and thus the summoning ability should go to healers. That would be Priests. Again, for the third time: give me a good reason why priests should be allowed to summon people to them
    2. Your comprehension is a bit low. Because a few classes have similar abilities does not make it homogenized. Going forward and extending those abilities into other classes that do not would definitely be homogenizing.
    3. Again with comprehension. I never said you were trying to giving something to everyone. What I said was that a few classes having similar abilities is not the same as every class having a similar ability. But going forward and giving it to those who do not have it and have no reason for it would definitely be homogenizing. Although, the monk idea that was brought up wouldn’t be bad. But they’re good enough as is and don’t need that crutch lol

    And I never said there wasn’t a need for any of your changes. I just said they don’t make sense. To give me a legitimate reason to implement your changes. And because such and such game did it isn’t what one would consider legitimate

    Vanguard was built that way with their healers being able to do their dungeon summon. EQ was not. To farm it out to healers in EQ doesn’t make sense when they’ve already got Mages built to do that exact same thing. For mechanic and lore reasons, I’d say Wizards are the closest thing to acquiring a group/personal summoning ability. Even then, I’d ask for it to require a reagent and a 5-10 minute cooldown on it.

    With the exception of Rangers and Headshot, hybrids don’t really get anything unique since they’re a mashup of 2 other classes and get the best of both worlds as is. But I do agree with the assessment of wanting another TSS revamp with the zones. Even if it’s just from level 100-120. Get more people of various levels into current era xpac and allow for more grouping and mashups
  14. Dre. Altoholic

    If someone hasn't figured it out by now they should probably switch classes.
    Scila likes this.
  15. Froglok Augur

    This option all ready exists, as noted above.

    However, you can also create an Audio Trigger for "tells you," to get a sound alert when you get a tell.
  16. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Mages and druids get DS
    CotH and Mana rods are mage only

    Beasts - Very nice mana regen/health buff, only pet type who can slow regardless of mob type (unless imune), can heal both pet and self, more fun then a mage......and lets not forget the most important thing.......Fero!
  17. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    why do we need to CHANGE the game?? WE love this game or we wouldn't be here.. now, I agree there are FIXES to be made.. Lag, Wizzies, etc.. but that's FIXES, not changes, not crap from other games that many of us don't want to play because they are NOT EQ.
    Scila, Ozon, Yinla and 3 others like this.
  18. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    or just have tells go to your main chat window, spam go to a tab hidden behind it. good lord Tunare I would not be able to handle it if EQ dinged at me every time I get a tell... but I am a psychotically chatty person.
    Metanis likes this.
  19. Metanis Bad Company

    Like x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000

    ::)
  20. quakedragon Augur

    This is true mages and druids do get DS.
    But the DS everyone asks for in GL and DS that gets MGB is the mage DS because its the best DS.
    So they have best DS, mana rods, coth.

    Meanwhile BST?

    Paladins get slay undead
    SK's they have FD, Death Touch, they get a pet. Not the best persay, but they have a lot of nice things other classes wish they had.
    Rangers, they get a DS that stacks on top of druid/mages and its really good, plus they have headshot.

    BST has no DT, no slay undead, no headshot. They deserve something.