Not A Bug BRD SPA 185 conflict ?

Discussion in 'Resolved' started by Alnitak, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. Alnitak Augur

    I have tested melee dps from my bard's primary hand and saw some issue.
    Here is the setup - dummy test in guild hall, bard fighting alone only using his own songs for buffs, primary hand - Velium Threaded Axe with Arctic Orb aug.
    https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=165545&aug4=163170
    DMG: 245, DLY: 21 , ratio: 11.67
    Off hand - Ice encrusted Short spear to distinguish slash from pierce damage.
    Using GamParse 2.0.0.99.C for parser.
    Playing songs:
    War March of Radiwol Rk.II
    https://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=59554
    Aria of Margidor Rk.II
    https://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=59464
    Aura of Margidor Rk.II
    https://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=59572

    Steady melee dps test, 10 mins. Slash dps from primary around 30K measured by parser.

    Now, I've equipped Lute of the Wanderer in my off-hand.
    https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=163595
    Which has the worn focus:
    Melee Damage Focus + 30% (SPA 185)
    https://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=17873

    In 10 minute test my slash melee dps measured for the same 30K or so.

    I've noted that War March of Radiwol Rk.II has +5% SPA 185 effect in it. So, I've expected at least 25% boost in my primary hand slash dps, but I saw none. I've done the test a few times with the same results.

    Something is not clear to me, should I indeed expect 25% melee dps boost from my primary with that instrument? Is there a SPA conflict with War March? Is the instrument focus simply bugged?
    Please, advise.
  2. kizant Augur

    For one it's likely a random value between 1% and 30% and the damage calculation is pretty complicated. You're likely only getting an increase to one small factor that goes into everything.

    Instead of looking at your DPS look at your max hit. Assuming you don't have procs or anything else doing damage. If you do then bring up the Breakdowns tab and look there for the weapon hit type that your main hand is using. It should show the max normal hit and max crit hit toward the bottom. With my heroic bard I see my max hit going up around 17% or so when using a similar focus. I'm sure others can link to the calculations themselves.
  3. Sancus Augur

    I'll do some testing on this later, but this should additively stack with War March. You definitely shouldn't expect to see a 25% increase in primary hand slash DPS, though.

    There are a couple reasons for that:
    • First, at a basic level, hits are composed of a base damage value and a damage interval. Hit Damage modifiers (SPA 185) only multiply the damage interval, which means only a portion of the value of your hit is getting amplified.
    • Hit damage modifiers should be additive between passive AAs, gear, and buffs*. In ToV the max rank of Innate Songblade added an 85% hit damage modifier, and I don't see new ranks in the AA list on the CoV beta forums (raidloot's data only goes up to ToV). War March is affected by song foci, so it's actually a 22% modifier at Rank 2. That means you're going from 2.07 multiplier to a 2.37 multiplier (~14% increase).
    • There's not a lot of good information on how minimum hit damage modifiers work for players, but for pets they don't change with Hit Damage modifiers. If players work the same way, which I think is probable, hits determined by Minimum Hit Damage modifiers won't be affected by SPA 185.
    You should still see some increase, but it could conceivably take longer than ten minutes for the difference to show given the RNG. As kizant mentioned, you're likely better off comparing max (or min) hits. I'd suggest sticking to looking at non-critical damage values, as luck will add some variability to max criticals over shorter parse time frames.

    *The highest modifier in each category will take effect. That said, Hit Damage modifiers for specific skills generally stack with Hit Damage modifiers for all hits. In other words, you can have a buff that adds a Hit Damage modifier for slash damage and a buff that adds a general Hit Damage modifier, which will stack. Two buffs that add general Hit Damage modifiers will not stack (highest takes effect).
  4. Sancus Augur

    Some data to go along with the above post:

    My Bard was running War March of Dekloaz Rk. II / Aria of Begalru (Rk. I) / Aura of Begalru Rk. II; my bard is level 112 and I never bought spells past 110. Innate Songblade is 18/19, so 80%.

    Max non-crit slash without the worn focus was 4,018. With the worn focus, it increased to 4,465. Just to show the math:

    Weapon Damage = 177, DI Roll = 20, DamTabRoll = 4.19, H-Str = 747, Damage Bonus= 131, SPA 185 = 157%
    Damage = 131 + Trunc(747 / 10) + Trunc((100% + 157%) * Trunc((Trunc(20 / 10) * 177 + 0.5) * 4.19 + 1)) = 4,018

    Weapon Damage = 177, DI Roll = 20, DamTabRoll = 4.19, H-Str = 753, Damage Bonus = 131, SPA 185 = 187%
    Damage = 131 + Trunc(753 / 10) + Trunc((100% + 187%) * Trunc((Trunc(20 / 10) * 177 + 0.5) * 4.19 + 1)) = 4,465

    Note that in addition to the SPA 185 modifiers I mentioned previously, Bards also have Troubadour's Weapon Mastery, which in my Bard's case adds another 55% SPA 185 mod.

    The formulas used above can be found here. They aren't perfect, but they're very close.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  5. Alnitak Augur

    Thank you Kizant, and thank you Sancus.
    I did some more up-to 860 sec long tests and collected more data.
    When I use the instrument in the off-hand the maximum normal hit from my Primary hand increases by 617 (6069 to 6686), which correlates very well with Sancus' formula and with my weapon damage when 30% SPA 185 is used for calculation. I.e. I've confirmed the formula and the SPA185 boost from the instruments, there is NO problem there, instruments work as described.
    Thanx again Sancus.
    On the other hand - total Primary melee boost was 35247 / 32845 = 7.3% increase, which does not compensate for 45% (in my particular case) off-hand dps loss, which convinces me to put those nice ToV instruments back into a basement stash of my house.
    Sancus, Wulfhere and kizant like this.