Dev Suggestion - Free heroic on new accts w/3month + sub

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Corwyhn Lionheart, Aug 21, 2021.

  1. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Every few years Daybreak has given out free heroic toons. Always nice for those that can use them. But I was thinking that it would be a positive thing to give out one free heroic upgrade to each new account.

    How about this. Daybreak can add a pop up when subbing letting folks that if the first time they sub for 3 months or more they will get a free level 85 heroic toon upgrade.

    Requiring a sub of at least 3 months means no worries of massive armies of FTP bots causing problems but this would effectively make the starting level 85 for anyone who wants to instantly be within range of grouping with 115s.

    While I think it is pretty easy to level up to 85 it is a PR nightmare on live where new players think they have this big giant hill to climb. And if they are new to the game they have no idea this isn't that hard.

    So downsides or upsides to this?

    Downside would be instant 85s who don't know there class but we already have this and getting to know your class has to occur at one point or another.
  2. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I think it would be better if they get the free Heroic Char but cannot use it until they have completed the tutorial and maybe the few quests in PoK which teach them how to do different things. One of the hardest things about EQ is getting the UI set up and understanding all the things that have been added over the years, guild lobby, housing, etc.Once the heroic is used it really should point the players to Feerott (House of Thule) to get the quests done there for the merc and augs.

    This sounds like a good idea but it depends what the new expansion brings if we are getting another 5 levels a level 85 heroic won't be able to group with a level 120. I'm expecting a higher level heroic becoming available once we hit level 120, so maybe leaving this until December/January and offering a higher heroic might be the way to go.

    It is sad to see players missing out on some of the best EQ content though.
    Skuz likes this.
  3. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    1) Reaching Level 85 is a monumental task for a new player.
    2) Your promo isn’t appealing to new players, but it would add more box accounts.
    3) Boosted characters given to new players result in a lower retention rate.

    It’s best to just funnel new players to the TLPs.
    yepmetoo likes this.
  4. Xilbuster Journeyman

    I sorta like the ideal but why limit it just to new accounts why not just give it to everyone who signs up a new 6 months sub or something.
  5. Szilent Augur

    Player Suggests Free Stuff

    ...
  6. Randomized Augur

    Not entirely free. Incentivized. As he said, DPG has a tendency to give them out over the years anyway. Now you can get it as part of a bundle if you meet such and such criteria. for tat I guess
    Skuz and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  7. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart


    1) Ummmm no it isn't to be fair. Not on Live servers. Once a person gets into a guild and starts socializing and getting tips on leveling etc it goes pretty fast. BUT the person needs to ask around and get some help. And on Live servers most of the game is concentrated on 85 plus. And since this is optional no one says a person has to make use of the 85 right away.

    2)You are saying new players would not want it? Why?

    Would it create more boxing. That is the sort of thing I was looking for... downsides. Would folks be more likely to box if paying 39 bucks for 3 months nets them a free 85? I don't think it would be large numbers most who want to box are already doing it.

    3) new players who can engage in groups and play with the majority of players increases retention rates. I guess next is to figure out which gives the bigger boost or drop in retention rates.

    Plus on 3 where are you getting your data I would like to look at it too.
  8. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    This is where you lose all perspective, because you've played forever and don't play any other games. First off let's start with a simple comparison with Warframe, a free to play sci-fi shooter that is similar to Destiny. There is a Steam achievement for playing 2 hours. What percentage of players do you think obtain that achievement? Spoiler, it's only 40%. How long do you think it takes a new player to just reach Level 70?

    Now, let's be honest with EQ1 it has a very terrible leveling experience due to never having the resources to invest into improvement. I will be fair and say that Mines of Gloomingdeep is done rather nicely from a gameplay perspective. Here are the issues with EQ1 leveling:
    • It's empty.
    • Designed for groups not solo. It's why you see on the New Player posts the first bits of advice are to add box accounts.
    • Hero's Journey is terrible. There are required tradeskill tasks for progression in Goru'kar Mesa, raid mobs to complete achievements that reward necessary armor upgrades (Blackfeather Roost), etc.
    • Questing as a group makes the gameplay experience worse as you need to farm many, many more quest mobs for quest drops.
    • Obtaining equipment is done incredibly poorly. Defiant gear drops randomly and very rarely do you get an actual usable piece. Also, you can't even craft quality leveling gear.
    • This leads to hitting a wall in the 60's, where you need to stop and farm gear. It's going to be a massive time sink to gear up to continue to slog into the 70's.
    It's a massive pay-wall. You'll say $40, not a big deal but it's a significant barrier compared to the rest of the market. Level 85 doesn't even get you into the community. The game is still dead at that level range. So, now they're just left jaded with a character that they don't know how to play and not knowing where to go. Now, they're going to have to drop another $40 for the expansion to even be allowed to leech into some EW and GD groups. Maybe, someone like you takes them to FM or GMM, where they let you play the game for them.

    I already addressed this point above, but a level 85 with a group of 115s isn't engaging gameplay. They do no damage and are practically death touched by any mob that looks at them.

    It's why new players should advised to go to TLPs, where there is an actual community across the level range. Plus, the gameplay is simpler and character progression is much more brief.


    It was in a developer interview awhile back regarding the WoW Character Boost tokens and how it is doubled edged sword. The studio gains extra revenue, but it comes at a cost of player engagement.
  9. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    Beaten to it.
  10. Angahran Augur

    so anyone who has subbed for longer than 3 months or has a lifetime account is SOL ?
  11. bigpapa Augur

    why not a free heroic with a one year sub..
  12. DeadRagarr Augur


    Going to be 100% honest. Based on FV

    I spent hours shouting out in general in the 90's/low 100's to join a group and when I did get into one it was 100% obvious the player was lets just say. Not at the wheel while XPing. I was invited out of pity more than anything else and I saw nobody else looking for group to form with. Thats the EQ of today!

    In fast shockingly I think only one group was all real players. So yes grouping is an issue.
  13. Randomized Augur

    But that was also different - at level 100 or 110 or so, the WoW Character Boost token gave you whatever the max level was. With all abilities/spell/whathaveyou.

    There was no learning, there was no progressing. It was just max level, thrown into end game, expecting to know what to do. It was a lot for a new player to take in. Hell, even I who had been playing the game and understood the mechanics some times struggled to grasp the concept of a specific class/role and took longer than I should have trying to figure it out.

    EverQuests Heroic gives you an 85 with...granted, a lot of AAs/spells/abilities to take in. But there's room for improvement, and growth and learning before you ever get to end game with all your abilities and AAs.

    Similar, but different. I'd say the biggest contributor to failing at new player retention (in regards to a heroic character) is the lack of community at that level range


    There's ways to circumvent that. It could be a claim item, once per account. If you're currently subbed for 3+ or lifetime, you get it. And it would take a 3+ month bundle to get the free boost.

    I believe that's due to the focus on end game where anything pre 100 right now is just dead. And players have gotten so used to boxing (from a decline in players over the year?), that it's just easier and better for them to continue with their "solo" play. Although, starting over on Bertox, with my Monk at 90 now and a Mage in his 50s and an SK in his 40s, I've seen multiple groups being formed from 30s on up. /shrug
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    No guild groups?

    There is no PuG scene on just about any live server for characters below 111 I reckon.

    If you aren't in a guild that groups up with its members you are gonna be waiting for some new cross-server EQ tech to arrive to ever see real PuG's again outside of early TLP.

    And that could be a very long wait indeed.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I like the proposition of a incentivising subscribing with a Heroic upgrade.
    I also think Yinla is onto something that the timing may not be quite right yet.

    Level 120 in new expansion kinda requires something like a 100-110 heroic upgrade option but that gigantic knowledge gap is a devil in the details and making a tutorial of any real value for a level 100-110 of 16 classes is going to be a pretty massive dev time sink to develop properly - though the devs could just opt to rely on the community as it has with so many other things.

    So who is up for writing a tutorial for their class at level 100 ish?

    (casts shrink clicky 3x and hides)
    Stymie likes this.
  16. Stymie Pendragon

    I'm curious to see what they do once max level reaches 121+ and the gap of 35 levels is passed for grouping with 85's. The simple act of PLing a new box could become a hassle until the players work out the kinks.

    It's difficult already for a returning/new player to adjust to the massive amount of abilities and AA's granted from today's Heroic boost. Adding even more levels and options without some sort of tutorial or help can only make matters worse. I can see why this issue hasn't been addressed since heroics were released. They had to know it had a shelf life, and that someday is approaching.
  17. Szilent Augur

    the gap is 30 levels, it's anticipated to be passed this Dec when roughly every active player on Live servers dings 116 day of expansion release.
    Yinla likes this.
  18. Stymie Pendragon

    Yeah, you're right. Hopefully we something when the next expansion is released.