What heroic stats should a 115 Warrior Raid Tank stack with augs?

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Sage Knight, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. The real Sandaormo Augur

    Pick one and stack or mix and match, there is no secret formula to being a tank that people want on raids. There is no magic way to be a better Warrior. Button management, positioning, quick mob pick ups and swaps, lock down agro, all while doing the best dps you can and following emotes during all this is what makes for a Tank that sticks out. There's no magic to it , its time put in working on your skills that is going to be your biggest upgrade.
    Metanis likes this.
  2. p2aa Augur

    Well, while not being a guarantee, I believe that more HP will save ya, the question is not on the melee dmg round, the tanks take the same, but when you add the spell dmg to these rounds, having more HP allows you maybe to survive this round.

    I haven't established this. Per magelo, there is atm around a 21 k HP difference between a fully geared HSta warrior, and a fully geared HAgi warrior. This can make a difference when you add spell dmg in the round. If you call this non significant, it's like calling keeping growth on tanks not useful. Will it save ya all the time ? No, but if it can save you 1 time of 10, it's yet good enough.

    The parse duration doesn't matter. Fights are short, and the parses are showing that HAgi warriors don't miss more than HSta warriors. Maybe if the fight would last 24 hours, you will see clearly more misses, but raid bosses fight don't last this long. But given this raid duration, there is no advantage on miss % really.

    False. Here are extracts of the Dzarn post, you can find it here https://everquest.fanra.info/wiki/Armor_Class

    Let's calculate your 'AC Sum'.

    Now the next step is to calculate an agility bonus if your agility is over 70. This bonus is equal to your 'Functional Agility' / 20.

    Your 'Functional Agility' is defined as your capped stat + the amount of heroic Agility you have.

    And Dzarn in his example shows this thing enters in the calculation of the AC Sum.

    ACSum: 7767

    Agi > 70: 7703 + (1295 / 20) = 7767

    AC Sum is the part of AC that impacts the hits dmg if the mob lands a hit on you.

    Yeah, warriors that don't go HDex are bad warriors, lol. Looks a bit delusional at best, ridiculous at worst.
  3. Lianeb Augur

    Once you reach 100% crit chance then what do you do?
    Currently there are 2 classes in EQ that can hit 100% melee crit rate and one of them is a tank
  4. Szilent Augur

    First, I appreciate the overall plan of getting all-around better stats. Before vendored augments so improved in RoS, I was equipping the full selection of hStr, hSta, hDex, and hAgi drop augs from TBM because the sum of stats (40 primary + 20/14/14) was so much higher than the solo stats on the TBM vendored augs. That's kinda not the case, now. Seaglass Curio is 105 hDex+hSta, Pearlescent Scale is 94. It does have some hStr & hAgi that Curio doesn't, but +10 each of those only gets it to 114 total. One is required to be …let's call it very agnostic, nearly indifferent, to the differential quality of those hStats point-for-point, to call that a win.

    To the meat, though:
    I'm curious what conditions you find acceptable, what caveats, for checking off "I have max crits I don't need stats". Warriors aren't berserkers, who can solidify that solo without conditions, without significant help. With allll the stuff I can run myself, that's potion(+58) & tributes(+26) & trophies(+217) & fancyfire(+200), I'm only peeking over 90% crits with full hDex type5s for 2942 worn hDex.

    In raids, accepting the caveat of also having shm focus(+481), and SPA169+35% from enc haste feel pretty easy, at least until one takes a death, but with just those, crit rate still isn't absolute till nearly 2800 worn hDex.

    That threshold is lowered enormously if a dedicated berserker puts Cry Carnage back on you after Brutal runs out in each event, but such dedication is rare - that mostly only happens if you're grouped with the berserker.

    Similarly, crit rate is capped with a trivial level of hDex for the duration of Auspice and/or AncestralAid, but those are part of the time, not full time, and usually overlap with when one would run one's own Brutal (which strips the Cry Carnage as mentioned above)

    Then outside raids, are all those caveats acceptable? I'm not in the habit of interrupting my activities to seek out buffs, so once those run out or if I take a death, I only get what's in group. I'm more cavalier than most running Tribs & Trophies ~constantly, but it's not common that I'll burn potions. In a dynamic group, keeping a fancyfire handy for its buff can get spendy, too. But I still want as high a crit% as I can get!
  5. The real Sandaormo Augur

    AND, as a Warrior if you do everything right , hit every button perfectly, have the best augs in all the right spots. You still are 100% reliant on the group or raid you're in. Are Healers on the ball, are mobs getting slowed, are adds being picked up etc etc etc
  6. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Gear is so inflated it makes absolutely no real difference.

    Do whatever makes you feel happy, and move on. If it ever changes and gear actually matters again, we can all reconfigure as needed at that time.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    As a group war i stack hdex, though i might switch with the next expansion given how often i might be crit capped. I'll have to run the numbers.

    Lianeb's hCha approach might make a lot of sense. Tanks get utility from quite a few different stats so getting the highest total value could win out.

    In either case, what people are saying about it not being a huge deal are correct. It's just the only real gear choice we can make.
  8. roth Augur

    Just to throw this out there … if you find yourself crit rate capped and want to further (slightly) increase your DPS to help the fights go by faster, you might want to move to HStr, while maintaining enough HDex to keep that crit capped. This is assuming your focus is on ending the fight sooner.
  9. Hellowhatsyourname Augur


    How are you all testing if you're crit capped?
  10. Szilent Augur

    hit something for a bit. If there are no non-crit hits? bingo.
  11. Gazzi New Member

    Argument of more hps looks good on the paper but in reality, it only helps you when you are "at risk" while tanking. Being "at risk" when you are MTing raid mobs during a 4mins rotation depends on assumptions but we could take for the example every 4s. On that assumption, your 20k more hps is what ? A reduction of 5k of mob dps on expectation average? What are we talking about ?? I'd rather have a 5% healing boost for the same result with a type 19 aug. As previously said, 20k more hps won't make you better warrior, all that matters is when you press buttons.
    Just my humble opinion but I personally find HDEX is very enjoyable path even for a raiding warrior. Specially when MT DWding, I like the extra riposte dps ( 35/40% of mob hits) is sweet and very noticable on parses. I find it makes events more enjoyable to flavor them with a bit of extra dps. And while grouping, it is just awesome. It is all about what is fun for you.
    Thus, I think most top warriors going HSTA allows them to frame their magelo ranking.
  12. p2aa Augur

    Nah, it's good in reality, read again what I said about HP and Spell damage.

    How can you be sure the extra riposte DPS is coming from your HDex choice ? Did you test it versus another Heroic path choice ?

    Very wrong. Tanks that would be magelo padders would boost the stats that rank them the highest on the default ranking criteria as people just click "warrior" ranking, which is AC, and not HP.
    These are HAgi tanks focused who are the highest AC on magelo.
    But, contrary to you, I respect other tanks who have another heroic path, and I certainly don't believe they are magelo padders.
  13. Gazzi New Member

    I am not trying to say having more HPs is bad at all, I am just saying that it matters only if you are "at risk". If you have enough healing power ( ie nerver at risk ), who care to have 20k or more hps if you never go lower ? So I am just trying to modelize the fact to have more HPs in order to compare it to a quantity of damage taken by sec. I guess you are not often "at risk" during your 4mins rotation with your biggest mitigation disc on. Of course you are a lot "at risk" with minor disc running ( more every 1/2 sec ) which values a lot the HPs boost.


    I disagree on that because, first it strongly depends on the order of the defensive skills checks and their own probability of success. The fact that the first 2 ones, riposte & parry are HDex based favors a lot HDEX : If you have both a boost for Heroic let say 10% more Riposte ( hdex) vs 10% more dodge( hagi), you will risposte a lot more than dodge because the probability of trigerrng dodge is lowered a lot by the fact you need first not to trigger all previous checks. HStrikethough are pretty low for raid mobs, much lower than for groups. It is why we riposte ( just the dps part of riposte ) a lot more raid mobs than group named.


    I sadly don't have the result when I was HAGI to compare, but maybe you can compare with your setup. On quick raid fight ( sontalak ) when we can tank whole fight alone, I have % of riposte of 35% on average ie number of riposte / number of mob hits. That number is calculated with my parser as I didnt see it on others. The DPS gain of risposte ( available in EQ log parser is +20% )



    I am sorry if I sounded disrespectful, I fully respect every pathes ;)
  14. Hamshire Augur

    I see people saying raid bosses with 100% strikethrough make it so the parry/ripo from hdex useless, anyone know when raid bosses actually start getting 100% strikethrough? I play TLPs and am wondering if bosses in potime, tacvi, anguish, ect, ect have this or is it something added to raid bosses much later and if so does anybody know when abouts?
  15. Wulfhere Augur

    The defensive check order is currently: miss (hAgi), riposte (hDex), parry/block (hDex), dodge (hAgi), shield/staff block.

    The total number of swings against you are reduced by each skill successively . If there are 100 swings in total and 50 of them miss then the remaining 50 swings are checked against a riposte chance. If 10 swings are riposted then 40 of them are checked against parry/block chance. Etc..

    For modern raid mobs, with 100% strike through, none of the skill checks will pass except for hit vs miss. Therefore hAgi can still reduce melee damage by raising chance for a miss, while hDex does nothing defensively. This is why enchanter (and warrior) accuracy debuff is so important against raid mobs. This is why raid tanks might choose first between hSta (HP + shielding) or hAgi (misses + AC) over hDex (critical hits + accuracy). hDex and critical hits are obviously good fun too though.

    As the raid content becomes more trivial, stacking hDex for more dps makes sense. Entering a new expansion, a tank might switch back to a more defensive heroic, either hSta or hAgi, until the new content again becomes trivial.
  16. p2aa Augur

    When I said this

    I was not comparing HDex to HAgi, I was explaining that it was was better to choose one side, and go fully into it, no point to balance stats, either you try to max your chance to riposte / parry, with HDex, or you try to max your chance to dodge / miss with HAgi.


    For live servers, it started to happen in TBM expansion, tier 2, for raid bosses. In tier 1, you could still dodge / shield block a bit Vim from Vim and Vigor raid. In tier 2, on Emolious from Emollious raid for example, you were seing 0 dodge / 0 shield block.
    Then, in EoK expansion, the 100 % strikethrough been extended to raid adds too, in the tier 2 raid Queen, the Dizok Captains and in the tier 3 raid Kar Zok reaper, the frost / flame mobs, were also doing it for example.
  17. Gazzi New Member

    Very true and COV has not been very challenging in term of raid boss dps. Allowing wars to tank with hDex/dual wield stance with minor additional healing.
    Let see if that trend is continuing for next expansion.
  18. The real Sandaormo Augur

    Most guilds these days don't have a rotation per-say for Last stand like they used to. You set a tank order yes but tank 2 on that list should never have to tank if your Warriors are geared and healers are on the ball. ( that said tank 2 is maybe the most important position, boring as hell till its not, you have to be on the ball and ready, 2nd on agro etc ). Absolutely tanks will die here and there, Clerics have to run, adds on the MT, those sorts of things can happen. If your a working Warrior in guild and always on the biggest mobs you are in a tank group ( at least in TR , other guilds may vary ). It would be fun to be in a dps raid group now and then yes, I might look at DEX but for now it is what it is.

    I stack AGI, I always have. Am I padding for magelo? Its what I use day to day. I will swap in a damage aug for trash clears but for events I pop in a ac/agi aug in my weapon.
  19. Metanis Bad Company

    With the quality of healers in your guild you could switch to CHA and they'd still keep you alive! In fact you should try it!

    (I jest! I jest! Aunti and Drin both know where I live!)
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  20. Valdest Journeyman

    My Opinion for Raid Tanks:

    If you have your Hero AA's maxed: Then focus should be on hSTA.

    If you do not, I feel AC is king so focus on hAGI.

    With diminishing returns over 4k, you secondary stat is always hDEX.

    Group is simple, hDEX + more hDEX.
    Metanis likes this.