Loot Etiquette - OOG Boxer Rolling

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Zephan, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. Abundant Elder

  2. Mrjon3s Augur

    I was in a group in chardok and won a fungi staff. Bad pull + charm break killed me so I parceled my staff away while I got a rez. Came back and an hour later won another fungi staff.
  3. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Communicate first or cry later. It's no different in EQ than in real life. And the crying person always thinks the other guy was evil and "scummy".
  4. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Not understanding the mechanics of loot in EQ and being surprised when loot goes to somebody unexpected is a little like losing a contest because you didn't understand the rules. It's normal to be upset, but it's not right to hate your opponent just because they understood the situation better than you.
  5. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Since day one, I have always found it interesting to watch EQ players fumble around with the equivalent of "schoolyard rules". As long as the teachers don't have to get involved, the kids can bully and do anything they want to each other. Some kids try to be nice, like their parents taught them. But unlike the real world, with cops and consequences, the schoolyard doesn't really protect you, does it? Kids get away with all sorts of things, maybe with a scolding or a timeout, but likely not even that.

    EQ devs are the same: here's a sandbox, now go play anarchy inside and do whatever you want. Until somebody cries or until a dev's feelings are hurt, then all of a sudden there are ban-able offenses (which are still to this day never spelled out, just "if you do something we don't like, we'll boot you").
  6. Rauven Augur


    I've seen this longer than EQ. When I played MW3 (that's MechWarrior 3 for you younger folk), the common 'rules' was to not shoot another BattleMech's legs intentionally. The reason for it is that leg destruction counted as a kill. It was deemed to be easier to get a kill by legging a mech than by going through the torsos.

    It was a generally accepted rule that everyone thought made for better matches. Until people exploited that fact. In MW3 the default damage model of your target was a 3D image that turned more and more red when damaged. Another way was a 2D wireframe that went blue, to green, to yellow, then red as the target took damage in its locations. Many used this because it was similar to MW2.

    I did the third. The HTAL display that showed bars showing green for how much armor, and red for how damaged. The longer the bars, the more armor.

    I noticed there was no bars present on many people's mech's legs. This meant they took all their armor off the legs. This freed up tonnage for more weapons, armor in torsos, and/or heatsinks (allowed them to fire weapons more often).

    At this point I began to target their legs. I figured they were exploiting the good faith rules and decided to get free kills on top of it. I didn't make many friends that way obviously. But generally people found me in the right because of the exploitation. I also had my subordinates in my unit (clan/guild/etc) fire on enemy legs as well, within a few months the no-legging stigma had diminished and was eliminated by MW4.

    Point here is people will always exploit the rules. The rules were devised by someone in the community. It didn't just happen over night where everyone just 'did the right thing'. Oh no. Instead it was devised by someone with an agenda. What that agenda was is anyone's guess. It may have been benevolent, or maybe they intended to exploit it.

    In either case, 'Need all' is exploitable. It will be exploited. If you're not exploiting it, you're being exploited. Just remember that. Like I said earlier in the thread, if people aren't handing lore to alts, they're leaving stuff like Hiero Cloaks in the shared bank so they can get another. Many of the people in this very thread (including the OP) who said the lore item to a nearby OOG box/alt is scummy are actually doing this this pre-banking thing. They justify it as 'right' to themselves by the idea that they didn't win it with the current group so its 'fair'. Even though they're looking to get items others could use. Or even as simple as the idea that everyone gets a fair shake to win loot they can sell to buy loot they need. Never mind the people who don't happen to get the good stuff to sell and they fall through the cracks. Oh but it was luck, RNG, and dice that did that, so its ok.

    We're all greedy cucks, some of us are just more honest about it. If you weren't, you'd all enforce more equitable loot rules. But you all (OP included) didn't bother. Couldn't be bothered, couldn't be arsed, not worth their time, etc. All the excuses.

    But these are things, truths even, people, especially EQ players don't like to hear. Kinda chips at their high horse position over other MMORPG players.
    NameAlreadyInUse likes this.
  7. Neseriya New Member

    Rules need to be laid out if someone is oog'ing. I myself don't roll on gear with my oog character. I'm not greedy either. If the oog character is allowing you to kill content you couldn't kill before or couldn't kill as fast... well... I think they have earned a voice. If everyone says no, either the boxer agrees or walks.

    Loot rules can make or break groups.
  8. Patchin New Member

    I feel I am a very fair, to even nice, player. I have given away a ton of low value, 200p and less loot in newplayer channel, because there is SO MUCH of it, and it's a PAIN to try and sell - often not worth the time. But, if had bazaar, I would be selling there, and not giving as much stuff away, because of convenience.

    Which is what the need all thing is about. No discussions needed really... Need all, whoever wins, wins. Individual that wants may speak with individual that wins for price, gift, whatever, but individual that wins is under no obligations whatsoever.

    If a group member could use a low value item that drops, I absolutely give to them if I win. High value items, in my experience, everyone expects all to roll on, and if you want it, offer to buy from the individual that won, and they usually willing to sell to group member at discount of TLP auctions price.

    I believe MOST of the players on Mischief are much like I am when it comes to loot. Not all, certainly... But definitely the majority.

    If the staff wasn't Lore, this wouldn't even be a discussion, honestly. OP would have probably just thought 'lucky dog' and moved on. If the Lore item had been a 100p item, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

    Why should the value of the item make it different rules, in some people's minds? Why does the Lore tag even matter, when there are so many options available to transfer it quickly? It shouldn't.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with this person winning a 2nd staff.. If they are still in the group and contributing, they should be allowed to roll on subsequent loot.

    That's not even considering the fact that they were probably doing 2x as much (or more) contribution as others, having an out of group toon assisting...

    Also completely agree with another poster... if going after a loot farm for a specific item, do it with guildies, but still establish the loot rules before hand. For PUG's... the dice win, be grateful if you're lucky, and expect every group member to roll on every item.
    Tweakfour17 and NameAlreadyInUse like this.
  9. Rauven Augur


    You are 100% correct.
    NameAlreadyInUse likes this.
  10. THISISHEKK Journeyman



    Hell yea, box on brother!
  11. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Neither did the person in the OP's tale. Nobody can. Only somebody in a group can roll on loot.

    The issue at hand is that some members of the group did not understand the loot mechanics (i.e., they did not understand what the "Lore" tag means and how it works). They mistakenly believed that meant that a person could only loot one of them.

    And then those people got surprised and angry when somebody looted a second "Lore" item, even though that is exactly what the game was designed to do. Basically, they didn't understand something and then, when they were surprised by it, they wanted to make up their own rules so that they would get what they wanted (more chance at loot than the game would otherwise give them).

    Basically, the people who are crying foul are actually the ones trying to be being greedy.

    Edit: I don't think any people are trying to be greedy in this instance. I think it is mostly a misunderstanding.
  12. Rauven Augur

    There's only one thief in Everquest, everyone else is just trying to get their crap back. :p
  13. Accipiter Old Timer


    You're sure making a lot of assumptions to come up with this contrived scenario. People don't know what lore means? In what universe?
  14. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    I think you are the one misunderstanding as I don't think anyone is confused about the lore tag. Though I am guessing that no one expected giving the item to an alt so they could roll again.

    Though in reality I am guessing this would have applied if the item was not lore and they were not expecting the same person to roll for and win an item multiple times before everyone else had won that same item.

    In the end they should have explained the loot expectations better and while the system does allow for winning multiple times it wouldn't be a bad thing if people made sure the loot got spread around the group.
  15. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    You said you don't think anyone is confused about the lore tag, but in the very next sentence you give an example of people being confused about the lore tag. Which is it? ;)
  16. Machen New Member


    They should have, it happens pretty frequently if you don't specify up front.
  17. Fyerie New Member

    Very poor sportsmanship.
  18. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    No, I said people are not expecting someone to roll on every drop of an item if they keep winning. That they would have some decency and try and ensure that loot was spread out. I am saying that no one expected someone to actually roll on it a second time after they have already won it. They knew it was possible but didn't think it would actually happen.
  19. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    If I joined a group on a TLP server, where all loot was tradeable (including Lore items), I would EXPECT:
    • To roll on every tradeable item, even if the same item dropped repeatedly.
    • I would expect everybody in the group to already understand that this is the normal and expected loot rule in a PUG (pick-up group) on a TLP.
    • I would expect that if anybody wanted to use other loot rules, they would speak up BEFORE loot dropped.
    Those are the default loot rules because those are the mechanics the game developers built into the game.

    IMO, anybody who waits until loot drops before trying to change loot rules, or gets pissed off at their group mates for having better luck, is the indecent person in the scenario.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    You would expect to be able to win the same item multiple times while others win nothing? That sure is greedy. I am sorry but I don't think most pickup groups would be okay with someone walking away with all or most of the big ticket drops because they had lucy dice that day. I mean what is wrong these days with showing a little self restraint and not trying to take all the loot for yourself.

    Sure I would expect loot rules to be discussed at the start but I never have experienced anyone keep winning the same non lore item multiple times without consideration for the rest of the group.

    You should note I never passed judgement on the act just the fact (before now) that people may not expect someone to attempt it.