The Elephant in the room

If you read my first post I believe I stated which software I use ( I s bxr ) and I was not suspended/banned prolly because I do not afk bot EVER .. I think they focused their attention on M q mostly. however I feel for those that do use M q 2 without going afk .. sure there are bad apples everywhere and those that have bot armies and tie up camps and go afk is wrong, however there are a ton of good people that use M q 2 for boxing and dont go afk and do not use the cheats that come with said software .. those are the peeps im sticking up for ..
some people that use boxing assistance software use it cause it helps them play easier due to a handicap that without it wouldn't allow them to play .
I dont even care if people use M q 2 software to automate the're whole group as long as they are at the keyboard who cares .. if it makes the game fun for them and they are not hurting anyone else why should it bother anyone ..

I'll make sure to purchase the premium expansions for both accounts this year to cover the costs.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Devs in the past have stated ISB is fine. They have never given a clear, concise answer regarding M Q. They have dropped pretty obvious hints that it's not allowed because the program allows for automation and unintended gameplay which are against the rules of the game.

If a person chooses to ignore these warnings, knowing full well it's not an approved software, they accepted the risk in getting banned, regardless if they use it for malicious purposes or not. DPG isn't going to needle through each instance of users using this program to differentiate which one is using the more toxic portions of the software and who isn't.

I don't feel sorry for them. They willingly used software that was never approved, knowing full well the potential repercussions and now we have some people acting bewildered and shocked when the consequences came to life.

Literally every automater says this: "as long as they are at the keyboard" - as if it makes it justifiable. (Because a GM can access your webcam and see you watch Netflix).

Keep on banning it all - get isnakeboxer in there as well. Clean it all out.

Serious question:
What does other competitive multiplayer games/e-sports do regarding players with handicaps? Do they get a special permission to use specific thirdparty tools by the mods/GMs if they ask nicely, or are they just being told to deal with it?
Is there an industry standard/guideline for such an issue?

Another question:
Is there a legit reason to choose M Q over I S Boxer, if you are going to stay within the rules anyway. What "allowed features" Does M Q have that I S Boxer don't have?
I don't know either program, so I have no clue...

My thoughts exactly. Think of doors hitting backsides, etc.

I have to think that the lack of a clear list of what 3rd party software is allowed, and isn't allowed must have had the involvement of an attorney at some point. Most corporations are risk averse and most rely on attorneys to help them avoid potential legal traps. Having said that, a clear list would be helpful.

They took a chance. Odds are, the folks who were suspended/banned had been taking this chance for a long time. They should have known the risks and they lost. My biggest complaint in this thread is those who want to try and justify their actions in this case. Some of their excuses are just, frankly, absurd.

I think rules should be enforced, and if not enforced, then changed. I get the desire to find a cheat mode at times. I just choose not to cheat.

I don't either. Though, to be honest, I am a member of a guild that does group and does help each other. I also have a large circle of friends in the game. This is a game that was built around social interactions and if an individual isn’t good at that it could be difficult to get help. On the other hand, if I can’t do what I want in-game, I just do what I can.

Says who?

I don't know of any online games that whitelist banned software for people who can prove they are handicapped.

M q 2 has a lot of features i s b doesn't, but fundamentally it performs actions for the player and responds to things happening ingame. I s b can only perform one action per key press per box, and has no way to use the game's state to choose what action is taken.

On bertox ?

being upset about getting banned for using illegal software is like being upset about fuggering yourself up from doing meth. you made a choice. plain. simple. period. end of story. game over. thanks for playing. move along.

and this:

you need to go to THOSE forums to get the answers you are seeking. EQ is not in this realm, so trying to make that argument is flawed at the very least, and grasping at straws at best.

I would assume it has something to do with too many keystrokes in x amount of time or something of that nature as I am not sure how else they would do it. Technically boxer does let a group play better then a boxed group without it all other things being equal so maybe they are testing to detect that? Or are they simply picking up simultaneous keystrokes though you would have to compare clients for that. Any ideas?

Some of them did complain. It just wasn't here on the boards, it was in discord and/or via petitions to the CSR.

If you are not a player on bertox, then you have no clue as to the numbers.

Actually bad example. It is more like police allowing folks to go 100 on a 70 mph road for years then suddenly start ticketing folks.

That being said you can be pissed at the sudden change but hey it's the law. After the change it is up to folks to continue to use that road or not.

I think you missed his reason for asking the question:

But in your response to this grasping at straws, I think that it is a legitimate question. What do companies do for those with disabilities that want to play their games? I have parkinsonism which makes it difficult for me to enjoy playing EQ at times, much less any game, either with keyboard/mouse or game controller. Should I just be told to "suck it up buttercup, you can't play"?

Except they were recently bought by a new company that may feel differently. It now all depends on how EG7 decides to view it.

EG7 seems to be much more up on anti cheat measures and eventually want EQ on their launcher from what I have read.

I think Bertox was a test bed to see how much damage suspensions would do. I wonder what they decided? (gets out popcorn).

yes it will def be something to watch over the next month or 2 .. especially with the CoV going on sale soon and the new expansion coming out in 5 months ..
DPG will never admit they were wrong in the suspensions/bans. even if it costs them revenue , however if we dont see any more mass suspensions/bans on other servers then their silence will be golden ..

It's also possible that there is something very specific to Bertox. Maybe a Bertox player is threatening legal action because of the cheaters/exploiters (a bit overdramatic)? Server instability issues? Who knows.

I will feel really badly for folks like you with disabilities... my repetitive stress pain seems very minor in comparison.

I am not sure I see DBG making a decision on software just due to disabled players unless EQ has a much higher proportion of them then most games. I think it would be great if they did but I don't see it. I do think that we as players should keep in mind some folks need help in playing the game due to disabilities and use software not as a cheat but as a support.

To me I suspect the decision by DBG will revolve around what EG7s plans are for the Everquest franchise. Hearing about a possible 64 bit client may mean they intend more then just riding what is left of EQ into the sunset.

If DBG plans to attract brand new players in large numbers at some point then I guess their changing or possibly changing attitude to Into Black Socks or Massive Quasars. If they don't plan on a LOT of new blood then keeping software that will keep the existing player base able to play as they get older is a good thing.

This could be an actual legal issue if this website is to be believed.

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/the-gaming-industry-is-susceptible-to-87947/

and this site.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ssibility-guidelines-after-fcc-waivers-expire

A relevant quote:

"Specifically the legislation states that in-game communications such as video and voice chat, and any UI or information needed to navigate to and operate the communication functionality must be accessible to people with a range of conditions such as vision or speech difficulties."

How far does accessibility go in this case? I am not an attorney, judge, or anything like that and so I am not qualified to say. But, it would seem that a case could be made that reasonable accommodations MIGHT be legally required in some cases. It obviously opens up a giant can of worms. One big issue that others have raised here would be verifying that a person is, in fact, disabled and might be entitled to some sort of assistance. As a school teacher I have had to try to navigate laws concerning people with disabilities for several years and I have some familiarity with the challenges of doing so.

Given that the owner of Daybreak is EG7 and they are located in Europe it might also be wise to consider what EU law has to say on the matter. Here in the USA, ADA laws have been proven to have teeth and have been enforced in a number of cases outside of the gaming world. Is there something similar in the EU?

I don't see them condoning 3rd party software that is in question here, because if you allow it for some, you have to allow it for all. But it will be interesting to see how they approach things in the future if they do move to 64-bit client and other things.