Expansion Request

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Skrab, Jul 31, 2021.

  1. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    There should be 9 missions and 4 raids. There is too much time spent on the raids, while group content is barren.
    Axel likes this.
  2. Marton Augur

    9 missions sounds good.

    4 raids doesn't sound good. What would guilds do? People can clear CoV in 1 night, could clear ToV in 1 night etc and that is not 'too much time spent on raids'.
    Ssdar and Elyssanda like this.
  3. Elyssanda Bardbrain

    I'd like 9 raids total, and at least 3 missions per zone of an expansion..
    Nolrog likes this.
  4. Lisard Silly

    i mean they could just copy pasta the 9 raids once they are made and tune them way down for 9 group missions. they pretty much do this anyways in reverse. idk why they stop short when it comes to the group missions
  5. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Obviously there making expansions too easy why dont they make the raids harder?

    Andarriel
  6. Tucoh Augur

    Request: make at least one zone, raid and mission very difficult. Like, not even really intended to be beaten regularly until the next expansion difficult. Don't make it required for the common completion achievements. Give a reason for us to build our characters and hone our skills. Make EQ have an endgame again.

    Was so disappointed by how easy ToV was when I rolled all the missions in a single day before hitting max level or upgrading my TBL group gear that i only subbed for a month, after finding out how easy CoV was I didnt even bother buying it.
    Skuz and Ssdar like this.
  7. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I'd be happy with 4 missions that couldn't be railroaded by DPS, the same goes for raids. Missions being over in less that 5 minutes raids taking not much longer are a waste of resources.

    They create raids and missions where half the mechanics can be skiped by burning DPS which leaves me wondering what is the point of adding more mechanics to them, why not just leave them out and create more less complex ones.
  8. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    I’d agree with this, group stuff can just be simple kill tasks and not a scaled back raid version.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  9. Bigstomp Augur


    Sounds fun. As long as you don't give it any sort of reward. As soon as you add a reward you turn it from optional fun to required.
    Fanra likes this.
  10. demi Augur

    I know it doesnt hurt to dream and I like many others want to see EQ thrive , However I'm predicting this will be EQ's last expansion .
  11. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Story time......

    Once upon a time EverQuest group players used to frequently complain about how they never saw much of the "story" of each expansion because they were not raiders, they felt that they were missing out on so much of the expansion's lore as it was locked away behind raid events that they were getting short-changed by the available experiences within the expansion and were not getting as much for their expansion money as the raiders were.

    The developers thought hard upon this issue for a while and then opted to make group missions - typically at least one per zone, more closely resemble the raid that was created for that zone so that both raiders & groupers could ultimately get to experience the "story" of the expansion and not feel so short-changed or experienceing such a large amount of FOMO.

    Fast forward a few years and now you have groupers whining that group content is too much like a raid........

    Devs can't win.

    Now I am a boxer so I get that some of the missions can feel like they were purposely designed to screw over boxers, in truth there probably are a few things that completely disregarded boxers or actively worked against them but the complexity of some of the group content was a refreshing change at the time for groupers, and after a few years of it it is now "old hat".

    Maybe the next evolution of group content is not taking a backwards step and going back to brain dead "just kill it" style group content but rather telling some additional part of the "story" and lore that the raids do not cover while still having some more complex group content there, this doesn't need to be pared down raid mechanics just a more story oriented mission with some neat twists.
    I would prefer that these more complex missions were "optional" so that you did not need them as part of the expansion's progression myself but that they contained wthin them enough "carrot" rewards to make them desirable to do, such as a neat augment for each archetype, or a novel clickie to add to your collection, or some funky illusion or mount.
    Kase likes this.
  12. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I predict that your prediction will be a risible failure at predicting.
    Doranur_Aleguzzler and Nolrog like this.
  13. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Just because you believe it is "required" doesn't make it "required". You do not need a single piece of gear from the expansion to beat it, and that is just plain wrong. You don't need *anything*.
  14. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    And this how you make bad games.
  15. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    9 missions 9 raids is what I am hoping to see, or maybe even better, after all RoF managed to almost double-up on missions vs Raids.

    We have more devs & coders now, 2021 vs 2020 we will have at least 3 more overall and that's a considerable increase in personnel for this game which has had a fairly small code/dev team.

    Sure it will perhaps take a couple years for them to really be at full capability but I think the 2021 expansion is still going to be significantly better than CoV was considering all the problems involved in makikng CoV.
    CoV I feel will eventually be viewed as something of an aberration that Covid-19 was largely responsible for, the irony is in the acronym.

    Maybe one day the devs will even go back and flesh CoV out a little so it doesn't stay so small in perpetuity and the TLP players, the few that get that far, will have a little more to chew on when they get there, but maybe not, there are probably several expansions that could also lay claim to requiring a bit more in the way of being fleshed out better.
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I think its bad balancing as opposed to games. They release raids that are a joke that can be beaten by 40 people in gear from the last expansion. But in beta, those same raids were a challenge to nearly unbeatable by the top guilds, until they were dumbed down so much.

    Raids should be:

    T1 = beatable in last years gear, mostly simple tank and spank fast encounters, every raid guild should find them beatable, 2-3 raids

    T2 = a challenge for the top 10 guilds either in mechanics or gear requirements, the top guilds probably 1 shot but 2nd tier guilds need 54 playing well or farming T1 gear some for weapons, 3 raids

    T3 = much harder raids, that require the top guilds to play well and require at least tanks to be geared in current expansion gear, 2-3 raids

    T3+ = ONE raid that is extremely hard and drops gear that is essentially of the tier for the NEXT expansion, a challenge raid to give us something to work on, 1 raid

    T1-3 should be one night of raiding for the top guilds. T3+ should be rough enough to need its own day

    T2 should be reduced in difficulty after 4 months slightly and after 8 months more, depending on how guilds actually played out in beating it

    T3 should be reduced in difficulty after 8 months, same way

    T1 and T3+ should never be nerfed unless there are bug issues. T3+ should not be required for progression in any way, just provide loot+ for those capable of earning it.

    T1 should probably be in separate zones and not in any order. T2 and 3 could be the same, or could be multiple raids in the same zones, as long as you don't put a harder raid in front of an easier raid. A T3 event should NEVER be easier than a T1 event, no gatekeepers.
    Knifen likes this.
  17. Tucoh Augur

    Personally, I don't really care. I bring my own group and play for the challenge. But if it doesn't have a reward that makes it worth it, it'll be difficult motivating people to try it.

    Like you say though, it shouldn't be a reward that makes it feel obligatory. It shouldn't participate in the challenger / paragon / hunter achievements and should share the same gear tier as easier content. If the next xpac has currency-driven type 5 augs (which i don't like), offering superior currency paths would be good. Having time locked and modest raid currency would be interesting, but not where i would go either.
  18. Zolav Augur

    Bring back the raid flagging system I say!!

    BUT 4 raids???? come on man! I mean you only have to do 4 raids if you like lol.

    Id prefer 12 raids. 2 full nights of raiding.
    Ssdar and Skuz like this.
  19. Velisaris_MS Augur

    You can give it a reward. The "I beat X mission on hard mode and all I got was this lousy t-shirt." Achievement.
  20. quakedragon Augur

    I think they should
    1. No level cap increase
    2. Zones for catching up mid game, a zone for 70 - 100, a zone for 90 - 115, then zones for current players. Wider level range zones means for chance for players catching up to see each other, less options more chance to be together. Plus if the rewards questlines are good, less likely to veer off this path.
    3. Make raids keyed, drop 1 key, make raids easy but requires 45+ people, fights are easy its just people have to stand in 45 different spots otherwise instant wipe, and its a keying raid for 1 key. This could encourage open raids.
    So if you want raids to be beaten 6 months from now, make many raids requiring a key, heck make them in open world like SoF and Octa the Collector, but make it so they just drop 1 key.
    Raids back then took awhile to do because so many keys.
    If you want to make it even more difficult/intense, make it so if you wipe, you can't redo until 6 hours later.
    4. Make the final tier group zone, a bunch of mini raid nameds, not saying mechanic wise but HP wise. So if your just a normal group, raid gear or not, you'll run out of mana and wipe, since named has too much HP, need more dps more healers than the average group. Mechanics wise, just ordinary group named mechanic, don't need to turn them into raid named mechanics. Encourages people to group beyond 6 people, more player interaction. Also, if your on the final tier zone, xp doesn't mean anything really so why not make the named's tough enough for mini raid.
    If you want to make final tier group zone for hardcore end game players, make it so nameds have so much HP it takes 2-3 groups to take it down in 3 minutes. No need to make the mechanics difficult, they just too much for a group, HP wise and they deal enough to make your healers constanly healing so they run out of mana.

    1 and 2, level cap has no change and zones to catchup for returning/newplayers, see how it goes, if level cap increases it just means returning/newplayer has to struggle even more to get to the end game, mid game is not a joke. There is no 85 - 100 zone in mid game unlike mid game 10 years ago, with plenty of zones 40 - 65.

    3 and 4, game beaten too fast, well keys slow down progression, a player check can slow down progression too, and nameds requiring two groups or more slows down drops since it takes more effort

    If you want a game to continue to thrive, you need to remember newplayers and returning players. Old players may leave and if less newplayers/returning stick around, the players population goes down.
    I think the game does good job getting people to return, but getting them to stick around is another story, and I believe mid game is at fault.

    Ever since HoT every expansion has been about current players. HoT 85 -90, VoA 90 -95, this and that expansion x - x+5
    TSS, you can solo your way to end game, that's a solution to mid game problems. That expansion was a success.